Can a fuge replace a skimmer?

[MONTANTK]

I’ve been thinking ahead toward my next build and was wondering if it was possible for a refugium to replace to need for a skimmer. Assuming you were still doing regular water changes and regularly exporting chaeto, do you think it’s possible to run a successful reef without a skimmer? Is anyone currently doing this? Is there anything else to be conscious of?

 

[Spare time]

Yes and no. If you goal is nitrate and phosphate reduction, and possible eliminating water changes, then yes. However, skimmers are a tool that people may use for different things. I run an Ai prime on my refugium, feed 4+ times a day, and have no nitrate or phosphate issues (occasionally have to dose phosphate). Usually issues with refugiums arrive from poor or improper lighting and/or a lack of needed elements.

 

[MONTANTK]

Yes and no. If you goal is nitrate and phosphate reduction, and possible eliminating water changes, then yes. However, skimmers are a tool that people may use for different things. I run an Ai prime on my refugium, feed 4+ times a day, and have no nitrate or phosphate issues (occasionally have to dose phosphate). Usually issues with refugiums arrive from poor or improper lighting and/or a lack of needed elements.

I think that’s where the risk comes in. It’s a balancing act because if you keep the tank too clean then the chaeto could crash which would cause a nutrient spike. For me, yes the goal would be to control nitrate and phosphate but not eliminate water changes. I’d still like to get the detritus out of the tank. I’m thinking in a ~50 gallon tank I would try and do it with a medium bio load and see how things go

 

[Spare time]

I think that’s where the risk comes in. It’s a balancing act because if you keep the tank too clean then the chaeto could crash which would cause a nutrient spike. For me, yes the goal would be to control nitrate and phosphate but not eliminate water changes. I’d still like to get the detritus out of the tank. I’m thinking in a ~50 gallon tank I would try and do it with a medium bio load and see how things go

That is why refugiums are fantastic. You can tune them. too low nitrate and phosphate? Turn the photoperiod down. Too much? Turn it up

 

[Mical]

I run both. Harvest chaeto about once a month and empty skimmer cups weekly. At this point I don't even test for phos or nitrates and I keep LPS & SPS

 

[MONTANTK]

I run both. Harvest chaeto about once a month and empty skimmer cups weekly. At this point I don't even test for phos or nitrates and I keep LPS & SPS

Do you think your tank would be negatively impacted if you removed your skimmer? By the sounds of it your skimmer doesn’t need to work very hard

 

[uhgster1]

I run both along with a filter sock. I have an undetectable nitrate and phosphate issue i remedy by running without the sock and increasing the photo period of the refugium. My experience has taught me that to avoid spikes: use mechanical filtration and skimming immediately after a chaeto harvest. I also increase my photo period until the chaeto has had time to regrow some and go back to the normal photo period and eliminate the sock. I got spikes when I harvested the chaeto but did not compensate for the reduced chaeto uptake.

 

[Mical]

Do you think your tank would be negatively impacted if you removed your skimmer? By the sounds of it your skimmer doesn’t need to work very hard

My skimmers produce about a full cup a week, I've actually have let them run 2+ weeks (using overflow reservoirs) and it still only produces pretty minimal waste. Both tanks are stocked pretty well with fish, corals & nems and I feed twice a day (pellets) with auto feeders. If I pull the chaeto or drastically harvest it back I notice skimmers pull more waste. It's been a balancing act for the first couple of months but for the last 2 years they've been on cruise control and I don't have to deal with filter socks. Vac the sump annually and continue on.

 

[ApoIsland]

I’ve been thinking ahead toward my next build and was wondering if it was possible for a refugium to replace to need for a skimmer. Assuming you were still doing regular water changes and regularly exporting chaeto, do you think it’s possible to run a successful reef without a skimmer? Is anyone currently doing this? Is there anything else to be conscious of?

Many people run a reef without a skimmer. I ditched mine 9 years ago and have never regretted it. There are tradeoffs though. I keep less fish than most people would. Have a 120g and usually keep the fish count between 9-12.

 

[MONTANTK]

Many people run a reef without a skimmer. I ditched mine 9 years ago and have never regretted it. There are tradeoffs though. I keep less fish than most people would. Have a 120g and usually keep the fish count between 9-12.

That wouldn’t be an issue for me because while I really enjoy watching the fish, I don’t like the look of a packed tank. Any other things you need to be aware of aside from fish?

 

[MONTANTK]

I run both along with a filter sock. I have an undetectable nitrate and phosphate issue i remedy by running without the sock and increasing the photo period of the refugium. My experience has taught me that to avoid spikes: use mechanical filtration and skimming immediately after a chaeto harvest. I also increase my photo period until the chaeto has had time to regrow some and go back to the normal photo period and eliminate the sock. I got spikes when I harvested the chaeto but did not compensate for the reduced chaeto uptake.

When your nutrients are undetectable you increase the photoperiod of your fuge? I would think it was the opposite

 

[JayinToronto]

Though there are a lot of people who have successful tanks without one, outside of space and cost there just doesn't seem to be a downside to running one that I can see. With the newer DC pump skimmers you can dial them up and down as needed. Though there are other ways to ensure adequate gas exchange in the system it's my opinion that a protein skimmer performs this the best.

 

[Jekyl]

Skimmer isn't just about nutrient reduction. Also gas exchange. I wouldn't run without one now.

 

[JayinToronto]

Though from 2006, I still feel this article is the best for summarizing all aspects of protein skimming. Definitely worth a read before you decide to not use one. http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-08/rhf/index.php

 

[DxMarinefish]

Gas exchange is the main reason I bought a skimmer last year after being in this hobby from 2007. Another reason was for emergency nutrient export as some of my softies tend to spawn now.

My main filtration is based on two powerful and properly set up waterfall Algae Turf Scrubbers.

so my skimmer skims but the skimate goes right back in the sump.
Low Nitrates and phosphate is an issue for me so systems can be run successfully without skimmers.

i don’t do regular water changes either.

 

[uhgster1]

When your nutrients are undetectable you increase the photoperiod of your fuge? I would think it was the opposite

I meant to write lower the period, I think faster than I type

 

[MONTANTK]

I meant to write lower the period, I think faster than I type

Haha just wanted to make sure I got that right!

 

[Ippyroy]

I prefer to run both. The fuge allows for a very healthy pod population and I use it instead of socks. I have a diverse CUC for detritus in it. I can easily turn off my skimmer or tune it down to not collect anything. It helps to maintain my PH at 8.3. I would recommend a large fuge and an undersized skimmer.

 

[ApoIsland]

That wouldn’t be an issue for me because while I really enjoy watching the fish, I don’t like the look of a packed tank. Any other things you need to be aware of aside from fish?

If you put a glass cover on your tank or have a hood that totally encloses the tank then you could have an issue with less efficient gas exchange. While I do have a hood it is not enclosed and I don't have any covers on my tank so I just angle my power heads at the surface. Also have a powerhead pointed at the surface in my sump. That's probably overkill though.

 

[MONTANTK]

If you put a glass cover on your tank or have a hood that totally encloses the tank then you could have an issue with less efficient gas exchange. While I do have a hood it is not enclosed and I don't have any covers on my tank so I just angle my power heads at the surface. Also have a powerhead pointed at the surface in my sump. That's probably overkill though.

I’d have a canopy but I’d probably do a floating canopy or just something really slim for hiding lights. Never would have thought of that though!