Can anyone ID this please

MrsBugmaster · Jul 13, 2017

Could be damage from the copper, but I know these fish are sensitive to copper so I was ramping up dosage very slowly. Had only 1/4 of usual dose very next morning my Bluestripe Butterfly was dead and other showing red spots ontheir sides on day three before I added any more copper, telling me it was copper sensitivity. Not sure if they would of reacted that bad to just 1/4 dose in such a short time. Removed copper and dosed furan2 with kanaplex and red spots went away.

Humblefish · Jul 13, 2017

Yeah, when I look at the pics now (with a different perspective) it does look like dead scales. I guess I'm not used to seeing them so close up in amazing detail like that. Will remember this for next time.

@melypr1985 Can we add this to your pictorial guide: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/fish-disease-index-pictorial-guide.285708/

melypr1985 · Jul 13, 2017

Humblefish said:
Yeah, when I look at the pics now (with a different perspective) it does look like dead scales. I guess I'm not used to seeing them so close up in amazing detail like that. Will remember this for next time.

@melypr1985 Can we add this to your pictorial guide: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/fish-disease-index-pictorial-guide.285708/

Absolutely! Though I'd like to wait and see if the malachite green has any effect on it.... or what caused it. More details to add to the picture.

ngoodermuth · Jul 14, 2017

MrsBugmaster said:
Could be damage from the copper, but I know these fish are sensitive to copper so I was ramping up dosage very slowly. Had only 1/4 of usual dose very next morning my Bluestripe Butterfly was dead and other showing red spots ontheir sides on day three before I added any more copper, telling me it was copper sensitivity. Not sure if they would of reacted that bad to just 1/4 dose in such a short time. Removed copper and dosed furan2 with kanaplex and red spots went away.

I don't think it was the copper, red spots sound like a serious bacterial infection. The kanaplex/furan-2 was a good call. The dead scales could be copper damage, but with that low amount I doubt it. When I treated my regal angel with copper, he developed some HLLE but that started towards the end of 35-40 days in therapeutic levels.

Have you noticed any skirmishes while in QT? Have lots of hiding places etc? Nipped fins and missing scales could be aggression?

MrsBugmaster · Jul 14, 2017

ngoodermuth said:
Have you noticed any skirmishes while in QT? Have lots of hiding places etc? Nipped fins and missing scales could be aggression?

No nipping and have plenty of pvc caves in the 55 gal QT. From my research I read that small red, more pinkish than red spot can be a sign of copper sensitivity too and not always bacterial. I would think a bacterial infection would not start so soon (3 days) after going in a fully cycled QT tank. But you never know. They came out of my 180 tank and where in there for 3 to 4 years before they got ich. They lived with mild ich for 8 or 9 months before I decided to pull them out and treat them and go fallow. (wanted to add a new fish and figured the ich may explode from the stress of a new fish so decided to treat them, that and it just bugged me that my fish had ich, lol) And the low dose copper treatment was 4 months ago for 3 days. I was getting ready to put them back in the 180 when I notice this new problem again as I had not seen it for a while. May be because of the poor lighting in the QT room that I didn't notice it either.

ngoodermuth · Jul 14, 2017

Hm you could be right then. But, the move into quarantine was a stressful event that would have weakened their immune systems, and opened them up to pathogens that were already present but held at bay. I still think you made the right call with antibiotics either way.

I hope you can get them back into shape!

MrsBugmaster · Jul 14, 2017

ngoodermuth said:
I hope you can get them back into shape!

Thanks, me too

MrsBugmaster · Aug 5, 2017

an update: fish is still in QT and live but still has the problems of dropping scales. I called my vet again and she did say it could be a parasite but had already left the body of the fish and the is why she could not see anything. Then said I could sacrifice the fish and have it sent to Purdue to perform a necropsy and find out what it is. But this would cost like $300 so not doing that. Any other ideas that causes scales to drop off like this? It doesn't seam to affect the fish.

MrsBugmaster · Sep 8, 2017

Update:
So I got my hands on a good microscope with a camera, did a FW dip and found this! What the heck is it and how do I get it off my fish? This came off my tang but they all have it. Coral Beauty is still alive but not looking well. I plan to do a fw dip on it too and see if this same thing come off of it too.

GHsaltie · Sep 8, 2017

Is it another scale?

MrsBugmaster · Sep 8, 2017

no much smaller that the scales where. And I don't think just a fw dip would make scales fall off

MrsBugmaster · Sep 8, 2017

This one was not in any liquid for a while and curled up when drying out, I don't think a scale will do that but I could be wrong.

Empress · Sep 8, 2017

A fluke maybe?

Maritimer · Sep 8, 2017

Those are scales - and perfectly normal for them to curl up when they dry out.

If you can open this PDF, scroll down for images of magnified fish scales, some with labels: http://palaeo-electronica.org/2001_2/fish/fish.pdf

~Bruce

melypr1985 · Sep 8, 2017

Agreed ^^ A scale might come off of a fish during a freshwater dip if the scale was already weak and ready to fall on it's own. The dip only helped the process a bit.

MrsBugmaster · Sep 9, 2017

So I'm back to square one as to why the scales are dropping off my fish and they look so bad. In this picture of my female angel you can see the missing scales on both sides of it's body. The previous pictures were 4 scales that dropped off during a fw dip of my white tail bristle tooth tang. Most of my fish look like this. They are not fighting, and have been together for 3 years at least. They seam to twitch when I do a water change but no other times. Any ideas as to what is going on? Sorry for the poor quality pic I took them in a hurry.

Humblefish · Sep 9, 2017

MrsBugmaster said:
They seam to twitch when I do a water change but no other times.

Could be a contaminant in the salt which is irritating the skin/scales. I would perform WCs using a different salt for the time being and see if it makes any difference. Also, be sure no pollutant is making its way into your water change vat.