Can high nitrates or phosphates kill inverts?

[BigJohnny]

Any evidence of this/scientific reason as to why it would occur?

Thanks

 

[Katrina71]

Yes. Inverts are delicate. I had a phosphate issue that killed some of mine.

 

[WVNed]

I dont know why physiologically but ever where I have read about inverts says something like this
This is from LA

Like other invertebrates, the Scarlet Skunk Cleaner Shrimp is intolerant of copper-based medications, high nitrate levels, and fluctuating water parameters.

Like other invertebrates, the Margarita Snail is sensitive to high nitrate levels and copper-based medications.

 

[norfolkgarden]

High nitrate is vaguely like a high level smog alert, but day after day after day after day.
It isn't lethal for a few days, but would be debilitating every single day for a year.

FWIW, 10 is the limit for drinking water in the USA. [emoji33]

 

[BigJohnny]

Yea I've heard the high nitrate thing but never seen a specific number. Some would consider 20ppm very high but others would say 100ppm. Never heard anything about phosphate though. Curious if there is any scientific reason to be worried about either.

@Randy Holmes-Farley

 

[WVNed]

Yea I've heard the high nitrate thing but never seen a specific number. Some would consider 20ppm very high but others would say 100ppm. Never heard anything about phosphate though. Curious if there is any scientific reason to be worried about either.

@Randy Holmes-Farley

He already wrote this
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-06/rhf/index.php
The internalized nitrite then causes a number of internal disturbances, including loss of potassium from certain tissues (such as skeletal muscle) and the oxidation of hemoglobin into methemoglobin, which reduces the blood's oxygen carrying capacity. This can cause reduced tissue oxygenation, hyperventilation and heart rate increases. Many other biochemical pathways become altered as well, including steroid synthesis, vasodilation (blood vessel enlargement) and changes in internal levels of ammonia and urea. Nitrite detoxification in freshwater fish is accomplished by direct nitrite excretion and by internal conversion of nitrite into nitrate.23

Perhaps this is what you seek.

 

[WVNed]

Based on the results of the ecotoxicity test of phosphate using fish, Daphnia, and algae, L(E)C50 was above 100 mg/L (nominal), indicating no toxicity. In general, the total phosphorus concentration including phosphate in rivers and lakes reaches levels of several ppm, suggesting that phosphate has no toxic effects. However, excessive inflow of phosphate into aquatic ecosystems has the potential to cause eutrophication due to algal growth.

 

[WVNed]

Lots of good stuff here.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/randys-reef-chemistry-articles.174821/

 

[Lasse]

This is the newest review I could find (2018) Although it is done a lot of NO3 toxicity studies (both acute and chronical) in freshwater – there is not many done in saltwater. Note that most figures we see in this article is as NO3-N and in order to have mg/l (ppm) NO3 – the figures should be multiplicated with 4.43. If you read 10mg/l (ppm) NO3-N (nitrate nitrogen) – the NO3 (nitrate) concentration is 44.3 mg/l (ppm).

It seems like we (aquarists) overestimate the NO3 toxicity even for invertebrates


Sincerely Lasse

 

[BigJohnny]

He already wrote this
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-06/rhf/index.php
The internalized nitrite then causes a number of internal disturbances, including loss of potassium from certain tissues (such as skeletal muscle) and the oxidation of hemoglobin into methemoglobin, which reduces the blood's oxygen carrying capacity. This can cause reduced tissue oxygenation, hyperventilation and heart rate increases. Many other biochemical pathways become altered as well, including steroid synthesis, vasodilation (blood vessel enlargement) and changes in internal levels of ammonia and urea. Nitrite detoxification in freshwater fish is accomplished by direct nitrite excretion and by internal conversion of nitrite into nitrate.23

Perhaps this is what you seek.

That's nitrite not nitrate

 

[BigJohnny]

This is the newest review I could find (2018) Although it is done a lot of NO3 toxicity studies (both acute and chronical) in freshwater – there is not many done in saltwater. Note that most figures we see in this article is as NO3-N and in order to have mg/l (ppm) NO3 – the figures should be multiplicated with 4.43. If you read 10mg/l (ppm) NO3-N (nitrate nitrogen) – the NO3 (nitrate) concentration is 44.3 mg/l (ppm).

It seems like we (aquarists) overestimate the NO3 toxicity even for invertebrates


Sincerely Lasse

That's why I figured. Thanks Lasse