can i ask a cycling question - sorry!!

[Bigboned]

So im on day 14 of the redsea maturation starter set, I understand that the pack assumes live rock is being used however im using dry so extra days needed.
however my ammonia is still off the chart - see pic - i thought i would have seen some movement
( im not expecting the cycle to be done by now)
obvs no livestock or cuc going in ( as suggested by the kit) - as im on a 55g the full bottle of bacteria has been used
Am i best to get more bacteria ( any brand in particular)?
Do a water change to reduce the current level? - redsea test suggests im at 2 but thats the max so could infact be higher - at what ammonia level does the cycle stall?
ive a seachem badge aswell which is only at the first 'unsafe' segment - alert

Nitrates already went up to 24, 8 after a 5% WC and now sit at 20
Nitrites have been 0 the whole time ( altho ive only api test for them)
my Alk is 9.5 so never had to dose the corraline grow

again, just thought i would have seen some movement by now or am i expecting too much with dry rock?

 

[BadFish619]

You'll know you're done with the cycle when your ammonia reads 0, and nitrites read 0, with a small reading of nitrates. What type of filtration are you using? Do you have a sand bed?

 

[Idoc]

I've never had a cycle stall, but have read that it can occur at over 5ppm ammonia...but again, I haven't confirmed this with it happening to me.

It's not going to hurt to add additional bacteria into the system. I've used Bio-Spira with great success when cycling a quick quarantine tank. I've also used MicroBacter7 to add additional bacteria to my main display system occasionally just to add diversity.

I'm not familiar with the Red Sea Starter kit....so, what was the level of ammonia supposed to be if you followed their directions correctly? I cycled with pure ammonia and would push my system to 2ppm and let it break it down. The fact that you have nitrate shows you do have bacteria working in the system to convert to ammonia and then to nitrate and then some to convert to nitrate. So, I wouldn't make any hasty changes right now...ie: I wouldn't do any water changes. Just give it some more time...

 

[Bigboned]

You'll know you're done with the cycle when your ammonia reads 0, and nitrites read 0, with a small reading of nitrates. What type of filtration are you using? Do you have a sand bed?

i didnt expect to be done to be honest just figured i would have seen movement - as im not using live rock and its not like i have a huge amount of dry, i wondered if i needed to add more bacteria to help establish what i do have.
Im using a HOB reef octo bh 1000 and its working great, settled down nicely, micro bubbles have 98% gone, decent skimmate albeit very wet at the mo as ive not got any livestock in. i have a 1 1/2 - 2" aragonite bed

 

[Bigboned]

I've never had a cycle stall, but have read that it can occur at over 5ppm ammonia...but again, I haven't confirmed this with it happening to me.

It's not going to hurt to add additional bacteria into the system. I've used Bio-Spira with great success when cycling a quick quarantine tank. I've also used MicroBacter7 to add additional bacteria to my main display system occasionally just to add diversity.

I'm not familiar with the Red Sea Starter kit....so, what was the level of ammonia supposed to be if you followed their directions correctly? I cycled with pure ammonia and would push my system to 2ppm and let it break it down. The fact that you have nitrate shows you do have bacteria working in the system to convert to ammonia and then to nitrate and then some to convert to nitrate. So, I wouldn't make any hasty changes right now...ie: I wouldn't do any water changes. Just give it some more time...

the kit suggests ammonia at 0.25 on day 7 and 0 by day 10
today was due to do a 5%WC and add a fish! like i said im not going there but just expected movement

 

[Jekyl]

Dr. Tim's one and only or biospira both get good reviews. Time heals all wounds though

 

[brandon429]

here's another take

wait thirty days in the current condition, add nothing else. whatever your test kits say/not applicable

change all your water at thirty days back to 0.0/0 params

cycled.

why:
anything you do while assembling an aquarium adds bacteria, including filtration bacteria. The water is the greatest source for these naturally inoculated into your tank (longstanding puddles and small ponds self cycle, nobody adds bottle bac etc)

the fact you added anything from a bottle meant for cycling, in any variation, is more bac on top of naturals

30 days is longer than it takes, and fw tanks self cycle that fast anyway without any help. Saltwater would've taken a bit longer if you assembled an ultra-clean, zero doser, water only type cycle but you didn't you've already pepped it up with ammonia, and bac

by 30 days, change out the water and make the wastewater go away (which is why interim testing doesn't matter)

once you have a new water column on top of the bioslicks 30 days set, ur done.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/the-microbiology-of-reef-tank-cycling.214618/
all tanks cycle by day 30 when any form of additive is used.

how you measure that is what varies, not the completion date. Cycles do not stall, in that link is wastewater nitrification studies at 300ppm ammonia still active. It is possible to dose enough ammonia to turn the water into toilet cleaner but I’ve never seen that done on a forum.

 

[Joshua Mummery]

the kit suggests ammonia at 0.25 on day 7 and 0 by day 10
today was due to do a 5%WC and add a fish! like i said im not going there but just expected movement

That is just a blanket statement as to everyones tank is different. Some tanks can take 4-6 weeks to cycle properly, just rember low and slow is key to the salt life.

 

[Mastiffsrule]

As everyone says, give it time.

I don’t think Doing another water change and dose of Bacteria would hurt. The new rock may be taking a bit more time to get the bacteria establish. Soon it should establish its bed and ammonia should drop quick. Just a thought.

 

[PatW]

Bacteria are pretty tough. It would take an obscenely high ammonia level to stall the cycle. Your ammonia level is probably as you guessed off the scale of your test. You could dilute your test water 4 fold and test that and multiply the result by 4 to get an actual reading. The fact that you have nitrites and nitrates being produced means that you have populations of the bacteria present to perform the cycle. With all that ammonia to use, the bacterial populations will increase. You will probably end up with really high nitrate levels in your tank.

 

[lapin]

So im on day 14 of the redsea maturation starter set,
Am i best to get more bacteria ( any brand in particular)?

You can but it is not needed. Fritz Turbo 900 or any others mentioned above wont hurt.

Do a water change to reduce the current level? - Red Sea test suggests im at 2 but thats the max so could infact be higher - at what ammonia level does the cycle stall?

If you are worried you could change out some of the water and see if your ammonia level drops as per your test kit. If it does not drop then it is higher than the test kit can read or you have a testing error. I doubt they would send you too much ammonia in the kit to cause the bacteria to "stall" as people say.

Nitrates went up to 24, 8 after a 5% WC and now sit at 20
Nitrites have been 0 the whole time ( altho ive only api test for them). I would have seen some movement by now or am i expecting too much with dry rock?

14 days is still not a long period of time for dry rock. The fact that you have nitrates means that either you have bacteria processing the ammonia or they were in your water from day 1.
The 0 nitrites is what is throwing this off. I would wait another week or so and test to see if ammonia drops and nitrites increase. I guess it would be possible to have a lot of "nitrite to nitrate" processing bacteria already without having much "ammonia to nitrite" bacteria. I never have had this happen.

 

[Bigboned]

Thanks all for the replies, I’m happy enough to wait it out I guess I just expected more- no biggy. As has been said, the nitrate reading confirms some bac are doing something! I’ve tested new rodi with and without salt to confirm a clean source. It’s not like I have oodles ( yes it is a word) of rock either and it’s all dry.
I’ll go back to planning for inhabitants lol

Would I be right in saying, when the ammonia is gone and therefore nitrate high, then worth doing a WC or should it be converted to nitrogen gas 1st?

 

[LilElroyJetson]

+1 to everything @lapin said above. I wouldn’t be concerned at 14 days but for whatever reason it seems your bacteria population is multiplying slowly. What temperature are you keeping the water at? If the water isn’t being kept over 70-ish degrees that may have something to do with it, warmer water temperatures help bacteria multiply and thrive. I used Fritz Turbostart 900 and my dry rock was reading 0 ammonia and 0 nitrite within the week.

If I were in your position I would add some to my tank to increase the bacteria population because you can’t really do any harm. Also, it’s important bottled bacteria be kept refrigerated, maybe due to storage or shipping conditions your bottled bacteria did not have as much live bacteria as a fresh sample would have. Just something to consider. Here’s a really helpful thread on cycling with bottled bacteria and it touches on the importance of the bottled bacteria being kept refrigerated.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/bacteria-in-a-bottle-myth-or-fact.403226/

 

[LynzieS]

After the cycle is finished, I would do a few water changes to bring nitrates down to a good level so a CUC could be added. What did you use to add ammonia? But as others have said, wait it out. Not seeing nitrites is pretty common. During my cycle, I only saw nitrites once and they weren't very high, the next day they were gone.

 

[Twocorns]

I'm cycling my tank for 3 months. Patience is key in this hobby.

 

[LilElroyJetson]

Also, you never have to apologize for asking anything on here. Especially when you’ve already attempted to research on your own which you clearly have and need some help or clarification. We’re here to help!

 

[Bigboned]

Temp is controlled at +\- 0.5 degC of 25.5 which google says is 77.9 ( using ink bird and 2x jager 200w)

I’ve got some dr Tim’s on route, nearest lfs has no bottle bac only ‘kits’- they are money hungry lol

I’m reading everything and all good stuff, makes sense especially the keeping in the fridge part- the products used were all part of the RS starter kit

 

[Jekyl]

Have you added any live rock or substrate? Will help your problem and also get the bonus of biodiversity. I ended up adding about 10lbs of rock from 3 different local stores and 2 lbs of crushed coral from their shark tank

 

[LilElroyJetson]

Temp is controlled at +\- 0.5 degC of 25.5 which google says is 77.9 ( using ink bird and 2x jager 200w)

I’ve got some dr Tim’s on route, nearest lfs has no bottle bac only ‘kits’- they are money hungry lol

I’m reading everything and all good stuff, makes sense especially the keeping in the fridge part- the products used were all part of the RS starter kit

Very good reads, you'll be happy you took the time to read them. Immensely valuable information. And a good retailer will ship the bottled bacteria with an appropriate cool pack and ship it overnight. It should not come in room temp. I ordered mine from SaltwaterAquarium.com and it was shipped properly just incase you end up needing it from elsewhere. (I'm not affiliated with them or anyone else for that matter lol.)

 

[Bigboned]

Unfortunately I’m in rural Ireland so my choices are limited