Can i dive to get corals?

[Ahbaloch]

Hello reefers, my name is Ali, and as some of you guys know i am new here,

I am beyond amazed how expensive some of these corals are.

I understand that it is supply and demand, so please dont tell me it is supply and demand lol

But my question is where is jason fox, Z’s or WWC are getting these corals from!?

They are getting these from some ocean or somewhere as they cant be man made, right!?

So where are they getting them from!??

Because i refuse to pay $2k for a 1in of some sps or some of these crazy prices.

So i am certified scuba diver so can i go somewhere and get these myself!?

Some people just have toooo much money so they dont mind paying ridiculous amount of money but i dont have $10k laying around for corals

So why dont all of us reefers stop buying, so the prices can go down!?

Lets be respectful and get a discussion going.

 

[Crabs McJones]

To my knowledge you cannot dive and collect wild corals, it's illegal. Most coral suppliers that do get them from the wild are licensed or have permits to do so and its regulated. Or they trade within the trade wholesaleing them to other suppliers and getting wholesaled to. Or they grow out their own corals and frag them for sale.

 

[Dom274]

Because i refuse to pay $2k for a 1in of some sps or some of these crazy prices.

So i am certified scuba diver so can i go somewhere and get these myself!?

Absolutely not. There would be local laws against collection without a license, as well as import requirements. These kind of things costs money, thus limiting "supply". If you have to state "Let's be respectful", it should be self evident that you are missing something...

 

[sp1187]

http://www.flkeysnews.com/news/local/crime/article79611822.html

here ya go

 

[cracker]

Ahb, where do You live? Here in Florida "some" corals can be collected with only a recreational fishing license. One can collect corals, fish & algae . The list is VERY limited.

 

[Sarah24!]

Hello,

So I may get eggs thrown at me for this, but hey some days it’s worth it. There are two sides to this, and I agree with everyone. Everyone so far has very good valid points and are worth while.

Starting with the first one, I hope they make it where we can not cut any coral from the wild anymore. I would support such as the endangered species biologist collecting samples to try and keep them from going extinct. But we have so much damage to the natural reefs now, it’s heart breaking. I would rather support causes to preserve natural reefs, and support farm grown reefs, man made to help replinish what has been lost.

On the same page, charging 2,000 for a frag that’s not even an inch is crazy. Plus, they can not even assure they will survive the fragging. Now, are people good at it, yes but still kills a part of it. I have never had super great luck with those itty bitty things. It totally could be me, just not doing it right.

We all know this hobby is expensive and we signed up for it. But sometimes, it makes me wonder. Unless you have nothing better to do with that kind of money, only a few have that luxury. I just think every one should have a chance at some of those amazing specimens.

Here comes the eggs, I almost wish someone would regulate the cost of live stock. If it’s 2,000 at least make it big enough for us to see it in he tank. Some of these take years and years to grow. This hobby doesn’t go quickly and patience is a virtues, but waiting 5 years to see my 2000 investiment grow 1/4 of an inch is just kinda heart breaking.

Everybody blames supply and demand, which I think is baloney. An example is tires, oil, there is so much of it we don’t even need assistance. But it’s about the dollars and how rich one can be. People who sell these corals at this price are in to make money. This is there job, lively hood etc and I don’t disagree. But it would be nice if they remember that possibly they were not always well off and struggled.

I am no means poor and def not rich, but I do what I can to help others. A few months ago a young couple really wanted this powder brown tang. One of the workers said one price, but it was actually 50 dollars more. They had it all ready to go etc. and short 50. It was clearly the workers fault but he didn’t budge he raised the price. The heart break they had crushed me, and so I paid it for them the whole price.

In return, it made someone happy, they were able to get something some of us covet. In addition it has come back to me, lots of people have paid it forward to me.

My only goals are to preserve the reefs as much as possible and for those who making a living on this, lol don’t forget that some of us, don’t have much money.

 

[A Toadstool Leather]

There is nothing wrong with wild collection if done right. I would research your local laws and inform yourself. If you can collect go ahead.

Taking a piece off a large colony wont do any real harm, we do it in our aquariums all the time.

 

[Dom274]

Here comes the eggs, I almost wish someone would regulate the cost of live stock. If it’s 2,000 at least make it big enough for us to see it in he tank. Some of these take years and years to grow. This hobby doesn’t go quickly and patience is a virtues, but waiting 5 years to see my 2000 investiment grow 1/4 of an inch is just kinda heart breaking.

You actually answered your own question, I just bolded it for you. I only sell a couple of times a year, so I am by no means a retailer with overhead and whatnot - But if a frag took me a year to grow, I would absolutely be looking at $500 to 1k for it.

Everybody blames supply and demand, which I think is baloney. An example is tires, oil, there is so much of it we don’t even need assistance. But it’s about the dollars and how rich one can be. People who sell these corals at this price are in to make money. This is there job, lively hood etc and I don’t disagree. But it would be nice if they remember that possibly they were not always well off and struggled.

Supply and demand are vague terms at best and an over-generalization at worst. As I outlined above, the "supply" part of the equation can be buried in the details.

 

[DeniseAndy]

Depending on where you collect, laws vary. If you are outside the USA and trying to bring it back into the USA, you will have many other laws to contest with and need paperwork allowing you to bring in the country. When I volunteered at Newport Aquarium, we would get confiscated shipments of corals and fish in. These were from distributors without proper paperwork. It is no different for individual.

Know the laws, obey the laws. These laws are set for the health of the reef (licensing, collecting times and how and where) and for the country (importing, live animals trading, etc.

 

[Sarah24!]

Hello Dom274,

Sometimes answering my own question is the result of maybe two hours of sleep, but I try harder not to hurt people’s feelings. First, since I have I’m sorry I have no excuse, but wasn’t intentional. I have purchased some frags and it has taking me a long time to grow. Yet I have never charged if someone really wanted one either. What your doing is fine, it’s your coral etc your rules. All I’m saying is there is no way I could afford or pay 500-1,000 for a frag that’s half an inch etc.

Do you deserve amazing credit for your accomplishments yes. But of those really expensive corals they you have, regardless of how you acquired them, how many have you donated Just in the spirit and fun of the hobby? (Please know I’m sure you have but I know lots who don’t).

As far as supple and demand goes, are they vague yes, but who wants to read a full document on micro and macro economics on a fish forum? So do to the nature of the forum and scope some things might be better if left a little vague or open ended.

 

[Coronus]

Their are only a small hand full of SPS Frags in the $2k range. A very small handful.
But their are hundreds in the $25 range. Go to a Coral show or frag swap for the best selection and price. Purchasing aqua cultured is the best way to preserve our reefs. The 4 th generation frag is always hardy and color is usually consistent.

 

[tangtime]

The prices for livestock have absolutely gotten ridiculous. Those in the hobby 7 yes ago or before know exactly what I’m taking about.

Back then it was about the hobby, not getting rich or lfs’s jacking up prices for their profit margins.

If anyone actually knew the profit made on the livestock from the big vendors, I assure you, you would be shocked and prolly upset by the huge margins they make.

 

[cracker]

The money involved is what drives the effort to grow these corals hopfully in the future we will no longer collect corals from the wild. Same with fish.

 

[Brautumn]

When I buy a coral I don't think about what I can get out of it once I frag it. Regardless of how long it took to grow or what I payed I usually price our frags $5-40 or trade and sometimes give away frags. There are always new people starting there reefs and I don't mind helping them out. If things are priced high I just pass on it.

 

[Z-man]

The money involved is what drives the effort to grow these corals hopfully in the future we will no longer collect corals from the wild. Same with fish.

A long time ago I worked at a place called Pet Food Warehouse. They were bought out by Petco to give you an idea of what the store was. The market up on marine items was 2.75 times the wholesale price. Example is $10 cost would retail for $27.50. The trade has really changed since the early 90's so that might not be the best example.

 

[Z-man]

Ali,
To answer your question directly, WWC has a separate facility where they grow their corals. Their goal, and you can ask them directly is to be fully aquacultured pieces. I'm sure they have a huge amount of overhead to cover the building, electricity bills, and set up costs. And employees to care for all of it. Check out a few of their postings if you want to see some of it.
Jason Fox does go diving to select new pieces...At least he did. Don't know if he has a license or simply dives with the wholesalers to select the pieces. He hasn't posted pics lately so he might have stopped doing it. Either way, I believe he would get a piece and grow it out before fragging and selling pieces.

Personally, I believe a good amount of pieces available are aquacultured or maricultured. There are a few groups like ORA doing research and breeding of fish and clams. If you ever get to Fort Pierce, FL you can tour the ORA facility. Then check out the Navy Seal Museum.

 

[Peanut]

If no one would pay the $2000 asking price...the seller would lower the price. It really is just simple supply and demand. Whats the point of asking $2000 if no one is willing to pay it.

What you need to realize is there are far more people with $2000 to spend on hard to get coral that you realize...unfortunately for you.

 

[Soakem]

I thought this was a pretty cool video. From Reef to aquarium.

 

[Soakem]

I thought this was a pretty cool video about the process of reef to aquarium. Although it's fish it's still very informative.

 

[Dom274]

Hello Dom274,

Sometimes answering my own question is the result of maybe two hours of sleep, but I try harder not to hurt people’s feelings. First, since I have I’m sorry I have no excuse, but wasn’t intentional. I have purchased some frags and it has taking me a long time to grow. Yet I have never charged if someone really wanted one either. What your doing is fine, it’s your coral etc your rules. All I’m saying is there is no way I could afford or pay 500-1,000 for a frag that’s half an inch etc.

You have nothing to be sorry for, you didn't offend me at all. I didn't mean to mislead, I'm not actually a high roller. Me "selling" is usually taking a couple dozen frags to my LFS where they will give me 10-20 a frag. I don't really do SPS, but I am aware that growth rate is a big factor in SPS prices. The reason some coral seem to hold their value is because they are such slow growers, there are always way more people looking for some than available frags. For example, the Grandis palys usually go for at least $40 a polyp simply because it takes about a year to grow a polyp (So I'm told).

Do you deserve amazing credit for your accomplishments yes. But of those really expensive corals they you have, regardless of how you acquired them, how many have you donated Just in the spirit and fun of the hobby? (Please know I’m sure you have but I know lots who don’t).

Whoa whoa whoa, stop right there. I wouldn't say I deserve credit nor would I say my accomplishments are amazing. I'm a simple hobbist, and I'd say we stand on the shoulders of giants, who figured out most of the hard stuff and shared their knowledge - I'd really just say I can follow directions...

And to answer you, no I have actually stopped paying it forward with corals - All too often they just died. I have provided the dirty water and live rock for two other people to get in the hobby though. Donations are great and all, don't get me wrong - But I see the price increases as signs that the hobby is healthy and growing. If prices were dropping, I would have the feeling that the hobby is dying and people are getting out. I guess I've just never seen a LFS operator/vendor getting rich and driving a new benz... If they really are getting that much for the frag, I'm willing to bet that profit margin feels needed to them to cover the losses on other things.