Can I Do Auto Water Changes with Spectrapure Pumps Via Apex?

[David S]

Hi Everyone,

So it's gotten to the point where I'm tired of doing messy water changes. Doing it automatically would potentially avoid any mess and it would add stability to the tank.
Since, I plan on getting an Apex, by years end, I thought I would get their DOS pump for doing said water changes. That was fine until I heard the noise they put out. If it was only for a short time - no problem, but doing a 1 gallon water change it would be on for a fairly substantial time.
Since my wife and I are retired, invariably, we would suffer the noise, for at least part of the day.
So I considered getting a LiterMeter 3 and a remote pump by Spectrapure. The advantage of their pumps are they are supposed to be much quieter, plus they come with a 5 year warranty.
However if I purchased the "main" litermeter 3, which programs its own internal pump and up to 2 remote pumps, it would be somewhat redundant, considering the Apex performs a similar function.
Then I noticed on Spectrapure's website that they offer a "Basic" LiterMeter dosing pump (LM3-MPM) which have all the sound and warranty benefits noted above, and can be programmed by an aquarium controller.
So my questions are:
1. Is anybody using these pumps, with an Apex, for auto water changes?
2. How to program in Apex?
3. Ideally, I would want a program that would dose 1 gallon of fresh saltwater while removing same amount from the tank. However, the program would not be on a set schedule. I would want to initiate the exchange whenever, I wanted to -anytime, any day. Is that possible?

Thanks

 

[DarthSimon]

David, where would you be storing your Salt Water? Is it near tank? Garage?

 

[David S]

I live in an apartment, so it will be dosed right by the tank - either half or 1 gallon at a time.
No sure If I will premix in the 2.5 gallon jugs I have

 

[David S]

One other thing:
Been in touch with Spectrapure customer support and they confirmed that I could use the LM3-MPM pumps with ther Apex but if it is not calibrated just right it could get "ugly".
However with the main LiterMeter, it apparently self calibrates.

 

[DarthSimon]

Honestly, I would just go with the DOS, and try and put the unit under your tank in cabinet. I don't find the dos heads to be all that loud. They can get loud if you run the unit fast and Dos a large volume in a short amount of time. If you trickle and pull the water in and out slowly, it's not that bad.

Any reason why you don't want to do a 24 hour a day continuous water change?

 

[David S]

Thanks for the quick reply D.

Since you have experience with the Dos, I can definitely ask some pertinent questions.
Regarding Noise:
Heard the noise on a YouTube episode and it was considerable. However, as you suggested, the speed at which the pump is run could well be a factor.
Are you familiar with the BRS Top off Doser (50 ml/min)?
I have it under my tank and when the cabinet is closed, I can barely hear it running.
So if the DOS is comparable -noise wise- I would seriously consider it.
So based on your experience, how long (assuming minimal noise) would it take to change out 1 gallon with the DOS?
And unlike my BRS doser where I know I have to replace my Kalk every 3 - 4 days, I don't want to be tied down to any specific schedule.
That's not an accident waiting to happen, rather it's one that would happen.

 

[DarthSimon]

Not sure what video you heard, and how close the mic was to the DOS, but 2 years back I had a DOS in under my cabinet, and my wife (AKA the Boss)
never said a word. It was a faint mechanical sound. I have since then moved all my tank gear to basement, and both of my DOS's are out of way.

As far as dosing schedule, it's personal preference. I asked this question a few years back to our resident reef chemist Randy Homes Farley and he said differences were nominal, comparing different water volume changes, as long as the water in and out is the same in a shorter or longer amount if time.

I run an SPS Display tank and know from experience, stability is the name of the game. The slower we make water chemistry changes, the more stable our parameters are. This is why I DOS a 2 gallon WC over a 24 hours period, as well as use a calcium reactor which slowly releases the alk and calcium.

 

[David S]

Not sure what video you heard, and how close the mic was to the DOS, but 2 years back I had a DOS in under my cabinet, and my wife (AKA the Boss)
never said a word. It was a faint mechanical sound. I have since then moved all my tank gear to basement, and both of my DOS's are out of way.

As far as dosing schedule, it's personal preference. I asked this question a few years back to our resident reef chemist Randy Homes Farley and he said differences were nominal, comparing different water volume changes, as long as the water in and out is the same in a shorter or longer amount if time.

I run an SPS Display tank and know from experience, stability is the name of the game. The slower we make water chemistry changes, the more stable our parameters are. This is why I DOS a 2 gallon WC over a 24 hours period, as well as use a calcium reactor which slowly releases the alk and calcium.

Thanks again Steve
My tank is predominately Acro so the same goes for me.
For the record, here are two videos that have the DOS in operation:
The first one, Devon is demonstrating the DOS


And here is the 2nd:


Out of curiosity, I checked my dosing pump in action and with the cabinet door open and the sound, when dosing, is quite noticeable. Door closed and you can't hear it.

I think what I'll do is wait until Reefapalooza NY in June and ask Terence for a demo and I'll go from there.

 

[DarthSimon]

In second video, looks like cell phone was a foot away. See you at the show in June. I usually go on Sunday

 

[David S]

In second video, looks like cell phone was a foot away. See you at the show in June. I usually go on Sunday

That's when I plan on going,too.
Hopefully, we'll cross paths.

 

[DarthSimon]

That would be cool...

 

[hellsangelbx]

These comments are all good but he's asking for the litermeter. I think the Dos is to loud and the pump is also one of the weakest compared to the competition but lined price. Has anyone dealt with the litermeter and calibrated it for neptune? If so how often do you have to calibrate it.
@David S did you make a choice already on which one to go with? I think in the same lines as you as well.

 

[dangros]

Thanks again Steve
My tank is predominately Acro so the same goes for me.
For the record, here are two videos that have the DOS in operation:
The first one, Devon is demonstrating the DOS


And here is the 2nd:


Out of curiosity, I checked my dosing pump in action and with the cabinet door open and the sound, when dosing, is quite noticeable. Door closed and you can't hear it.

I think what I'll do is wait until Reefapalooza NY in June and ask Terence for a demo and I'll go from there.

The 2nd video is mine. I made it because BOTH units broke and needed repair. When I got one back, it made that clicking noise so I wanted to show Neptune support in case it was a defect. Once repaired, the units worked until last weekend when lightning storm took them both out.

It's important to note that what you hear is at NOT at at normal water change speed. 1 to 2 gallons a day water change speed is significantly louder. It's worse when 2 pumps run simultaneously (one for clean water in, the other for dirty water out). Frequently I hear 3 simultaneously: Salt water into tank, dirty water out of tank, and water top off container refill. The video only shows 1 pump at default (slower) speed. The slower it goes, the quieter it runs.

Some points:
1) This is 100% my use case: the need for quiet automatic water changes and water top off tank refilling. Since noise IS very much an issue, I had to remove them and put them in the basement (a floor below the tank) - tubes and cable routed through the wall and floor.
2) Different people have varying tolerances to varying types of sounds but my strong opinion is that in NO WAY would I keep these in the living room, bed room, or any room I reside in on a regular basis at 6000ml per 24 hours. They annoy me when I workout or talk on the phone in the basement and it's 1000 sq ft and different room. My wife would kill me if I put them in the living room.
3) The customer service has been great. Dealing with them right now (as a matter of fact) to see what needs repair or replacement after the storm. I already replaced my controller. I also lost 2 EB8 modules and an ALD. The 2 DoS units seem totally fried. A bit disappointing since only one item in my house that was not a Neptune product was impacted by the storm. That is my garage door opener. All other non-neptune products that were plugged into the apex survived fine (Pumps, 2 GHL lights, heaters, probes, powerheads, Cx Reactor/Co2 regulator, and all computers, TVS, everything)
4) I'm currently considering replacing these but only if I build a sound proofing foam cover.
5) My other consideration is exactly what the OP was thinking - which is Litermeter Pump and Apex.
6) I have nothing against Neptune. I am a loyal customer but I have certainly dealt with quality issues at times with my Apex and both DoS pumps. Having said that, my controller has saved my booty so many times, I would say it's paid for a few times over