Can I just keep adding ‘bacteria’?

[brandon429]

It only matters when the feedback isn’t from the advocate of exclusive bacteria feed but from the tanks worked as outbound jobs, not in the writers home, that controls bias in feedback



**Sunny is earning this in a way

his thread has feedback from users on positive growth

the key is those issues are from multi fed tanks as Randy said, not a direct tie to bac only, specifically cycling bac as a sole feed source


for example

the nuisance algae forum is full of help requests

an advocate could go in there, offer to fix tanks using only cycling bac and no other option, remove fish, stop feeding the tank, put fish back when the tank and corals are fixed by dosing cycling bacteria only

after ten tries on file, we’d know something about the claim

When an advocate of repeat dosing cycling bacteria to cycled tanks finds a coral only startup tank, they could post inside the help or intro thread to remote consult the tank. They’d advise: stop all feeding. Only dose cycling bac

after ten of those work threads, we’d know something once the tanks got out to six months old

get feedback from live time, currently underway reef tanks, needing help or dry start setups who want to grow corals there are lots of those. If you can please ten posters and get them to back a method, that’s legit to measure claims. When someone self reports on a given best method, to me that’s lowest reliability for proof.

 

[brandon429]

I thought Sunny did a great job managing such a big work thread even if 100% of the data isn’t culled down to non fed systems


he’s getting buy in from a lot of reefers for sure

let’s get some side verifications going, make a pattern, = redefine best practices

try and bring in a few non fed frag tanks to feed as cycling bac only there are several of those on the site, some wanting coral growth help

 

[HomebroodExotics]

.

 

[MnFish1]

Evening All

Tank is 7 months old now. Zoas looking good. SPS are struggling. Can one keep adding bacteria to improve a new tank? What type of bacteria? Any particular brand to work some magic?

Any suggestions would be welcome. Thanks all.

Haven't read the rest of the replies - yes - you can keep adding bacteria. However adding bacteria is not your problem - and IMHO will not help (except to the people that make bacteria)

 

[brandon429]

Someone needs to work some reef fix threads live time where they dose only cipro and cycling bacteria

How do we know that's not the winningest method in reefing until someone writes an article on its efficacy going just off their tank

 

[HankstankXXL750 Verified Sponsor]

Why would I feed the corals fish food? No I did not feed the corals and I do not feed my corals anything other than bacteria and whatever else is in the water column. If there’s no fish in the tank there is no fish food in the tank for me. If you’re asking me to stop feeding the corals the bacteria as proof the corals would die then yea that’s kind of what we are talking about…I don’t know I’m still confused here.

My understanding is that corals need more than just light. Nutrients from feeding or dosing is required. I broadcast feed my fish with all pumps off and expect that my corals are fed from what my fish miss. In my Frag tank I feed my corals by dosing nitrates and phosphates if level drop too low. I also feed coral foods such as reef roids and fuel or acro power to supply vitamins, amino and fatty acids and will target feed hammers and torches with mysis shrimp. Ghost feeding a tank the appropriate amount will allow a person to maintain nitrates and phosphates (which corals need).

 

[cdnco2004]

There is lots of bacteria additives available on the market where the nitrogen cycle is not the intended use of the bacteria.

 

[brandon429]

that is 100% correct, corals aren't autotrophs, they're active meat eaters in some way or another.

any system that has live rock, brought up in another tank that was indeed fed to build up some organics + residents of the biofilm but currently just feed restricted, is slowly carving down it's microcommunities (feed webs) that corals live on and won't run forever. it might run 2 years though, limited is the key

it's why only one or two people self report that success, they aren't linking threads of 20 tanks that used it and won



as food sourcing reduces so will coral health

lets see a white rock system, recently cycled, packed in corals, fed only cycling bacteria for the win.

Im not thinking means and ways can't evolve in reefing, the bar is set for proof and that bar is a 40+ page work thread of other people's jobs using a given best practices way.

cycling bacteria doesn't give the required balance of carbs, amino acids, vitamins, hufa or any of the other myriad required elements from an active food chain. buying time to slow decline isn't reefing.

 

[brandon429]

in favor of Sunny, he does have a work thread that's building steam:

what if, in the presence of an active food web that by rule is attaining protein input regularly for the system via feed, bacteria overdosed helps create aggregates or more appealing flocs that corals want to ingest and that's his growth spurt clearly shown. he has faster than normal antlers of sps that's no joke. time will tell

its not a dispute that reef systems with hermatypic corals must be fed in order to stay alive, the dispute is whether cycling bac provides any or all of the input required. I'll vote hard no.

 

[HomebroodExotics]

in favor of Sunny, he does have a work thread that's building steam:

what if, in the presence of an active food web that by rule is attaining protein input regularly for the system via feed, bacteria overdosed helps create aggregates or more appealing flocs that corals want to ingest and that's his growth spurt clearly shown. he has faster than normal antlers of sps that's no joke. time will tell

its not a dispute that reef systems with hermatypic corals must be fed in order to stay alive, the dispute is whether cycling bac provides any or all of the input required. I'll vote hard no.

In a tank with no fish there will be tons of copepods and other life. Maybe you should try this technique out instead of shooting holes in something you still don’t understand. Understand it first would be the first step.

 

[MnFish1]

in favor of Sunny, he does have a work thread that's building steam:

what if, in the presence of an active food web that by rule is attaining protein input regularly for the system via feed, bacteria overdosed helps create aggregates or more appealing flocs that corals want to ingest and that's his growth spurt clearly shown. he has faster than normal antlers of sps that's no joke. time will tell

its not a dispute that reef systems with hermatypic corals must be fed in order to stay alive, the dispute is whether cycling bac provides any or all of the input required. I'll vote hard no.

Curious - where is your work thread - since you seem to make that a type of creditability. Just curious

 

[MnFish1]

that is 100% correct, corals aren't autotrophs, they're active meat eaters in some way or another.

any system that has live rock, brought up in another tank that was indeed fed to build up some organics + residents of the biofilm but currently just feed restricted, is slowly carving down it's microcommunities (feed webs) that corals live on and won't run forever. it might run 2 years though, limited is the key

it's why only one or two people self report that success, they aren't linking threads of 20 tanks that used it and won



as food sourcing reduces so will coral health

lets see a white rock system, recently cycled, packed in corals, fed only cycling bacteria for the win.

Im not thinking means and ways can't evolve in reefing, the bar is set for proof and that bar is a 40+ page work thread of other people's jobs using a given best practices way.

cycling bacteria doesn't give the required balance of carbs, amino acids, vitamins, hufa or any of the other myriad required elements from an active food chain. buying time to slow decline isn't reefing.

Correct - there is no such thing (except a bacteria) - that is an autotroph. Your point does not seem to make sense?

 

[HankstankXXL750 Verified Sponsor]

In a tank with no fish there will be tons of copepods and other life. Maybe you should try this technique out instead of shooting holes in something you still don’t understand. Understand it first would be the first step.

I haven’t looked at Sunny’s info, but the question was about adding bacteria. No where on this thread was the presence of copepods etc discussed. Copepods, fortifiers, amphipods, brine shrimp etc would all be in my opinion feeding the tank.
But why would you say a fishless tank will have tons of these life form? Only if they came as hitchhikers or were introduced. They don’t just appear. I culture all of those as well as feed frozen. As I said the corals would take nutrition from the excess or missed food.

Adding context by bringing in copepods etc is in essence feeding the tank. Yes corals will consume those meaty foods the same as feeding the tank with frozen.

what was brought up was that bacteria alone would starve the corals. I would still hold to that truth. Alternate food sources would not be consistent with saying the corals survive from bacteria alone.
This comment ia not meant to be argumentative to you, but for the many inexperienced or new reefers who will take away from this conversation that starting a new tank and adding corals plus bacteria “alone” will drive a healthy reef, then wonder why nothing is surviving.
Coming from a time frame in the 80’s when bottled bac was considered voodoo because the belief was the anaerobic bacteria would die in the O2 depleted storage and probable temperature extremes during shipping I haven’t looked into most of these. However I did cycle a 210 gallon tank in 7 days with probio quick start to reduce 2.0 ammonia to 0 in less than 24 hrs as per Hanna tester and daily return to the 2.0 so I do know that the bacteria has come a long way in 40 years.
I also know that tanks seem to grow better with age (development of different bacteria) that isn’t part of the “cycle”. I would assume dosing those would be beneficial and intend to look in Sunny’s project to see what I can learn.

 

[MnFish1]

It's curious that none of the folks saying yes to the OP's question about bacteria dosing being useful, and who cited SunnyX and zeovit as evidence, NOT ONCE mentioned the organic carbon dosing part of that bacteria method. (at least not that I saw, perhaps I missed it).

I agree that one of the main benefits of organic carbon dosing is feeding bacteria and other organisms (say, zooplankton that feed on bacteria) that are increased to filter feeders.

Whether one needs to be adding bacteria to accomplish that benefit equally well is the question.

I would add that simple dosing of bacteria without carbon dosing, which seemed to be the initial point of this thread, will also feed filter feeders, but perhaps not nearly as well as organic carbon dosing alone, or organic carbon dosing plus daily bacteria.

IMHO - there is no benefit to dosing bacteria

 

[MnFish1]

Someone needs to work some reef fix threads live time where they dose only cipro and cycling bacteria

How do we know that's not the winningest method in reefing until someone writes an article on its efficacy going just off their tank

Actually - no one needs to do anything. Perhaps you should work some reef fix threads and report. No one is talking about Cipro (except off topic) - right?

 

[BeanAnimal]

Experience. See it with my eyes through many tanks posted here and my own. The difference is very clear to see. I mean zeovit tanks have a particular look that experienced people can easily identify, for an example.

You mean pale pastel washed out corals. Yep easy to notice

 

[Moronta12]

Yes it works, lots of people do it successfully, myself included.

me too

 

[BeanAnimal]

what is not subject to bias: a work thread, where a claimant here begins a thread offering to fix tanks solely using cycling bacteria in coral only tanks

I think you put way too much scientific stock and attributable outcomes into "work threads". There are just too many variables.

As For "Sunny" and success.... Randy is spot on.

If I twirl around 3 times before feeding my BTA Reef Frenzy and then tap on the glass 3 times and do a water change exactly 71 minutes later and then throw 1 ice cube per 10 gallons in the sump... and my BTA is pretty....

And 71 other people do the same thing and most have "pretty" BTAs... what part of that is actually making the BTAs Pretty?

Sounds silly right? Just because somebody comes up with a workflow that appears to "work" and others follow the same workflow, does not mean that all of the steps or ideas have validity.

Is there a benefit in dumping nitrifying bacteria in a mature tank over and over? I would guess not and until somebody shows me a controlled experiment proving otherwise, my opinion is not going to change.

 

[Spare time]

Any bottled bacteria you can buy are just nitrosomas bacteria that your tank is already full of at 7 months old.

Adding more is just wasting your money.

That's not true. That is simply the cycling bacteria bottles.

 

[Spare time]

For some reason this thread is full of people who forgot that bacteria exists outside of nitrifiers and that you can buy bottles of these. If you are interested in adding (or culturing bacteria), I'd look at adding something like PNS probio or something else that can have a functional role with coral or be food.