Can Some check my QT Set & Disease Management

[PcDr32]

Here's the story. Beginning of last week my Blue Dempsey was beating up my Royal Gramma after killing my Blenny the day before. I decided to remove him and take him back to the LFS. I chased him around the tank (55gal Reef) for about an hour without success. There next morning the royal gramma was dead. That evening I noticed brown spots on the yellow tangs face and tiny bumps his body when he got close to the white lights. The next morning in the blue light i could see "something" on the 2 clowns, but you couldn't see in under the whites. Long and short with the help on R2R it seems to be velvet. The LFS thinks whatever it was it was caused by stress of chasing the Demsey around. No i did not have a QT setup (won't happen again)

So the last 24 hours have been a whorl wind. Picked up a 40 Breeder at Petco as a QT yesterday (yep the $1 per gallon sale started today!!) Did 20% water change in DT putting the water in QT. Used retired filter media from DT in QT Filter. Filled Remaining QT with fresh mix. Ran system for about 20 hours.

Today did 5 min FW dip, then 30 min dip in Quickcure. Then into QT treated with cupramine (needed to drive 70 miles each direction to find a LFS with it in stock). Lost my small clown when i put him in the QT. The Big clown, Yellow Tang, and Demsey survived the dips but are huddled in the corner.

Questions:
1. The filters from my DT had dried out does this mean any biological filtering is dead?
2. Do I need CUC in the QT?
3. The Clowns eyes look almost cloudy is the normal?
4. Do i run lights on the QT? The fish started swimming more when i turned them on.
The bottle of cupermine says to add more in 48 hours, should I?
5. I had to tear apart the rock structure of my DT to catch the blue *******! Do i need to worry about any side affects from that?

My QT setup. Did i miss anything? Need to change anything?

Any help or suggestions are greatly appriciated.

 

[starypotter]

No CUC, with copper they'll die, just maintain cleanliness with water changes.
Get an ammonia alert badge and monitor closely. Copper in a system will ruin any of the liquid test results, the only accurate thing is the badge.
If media has dried out it's likely dead and adding it to your system could cause an ammonia spike. See comment number two.
Keep lights off if you can and just use the lighting in the room to help reduce stress.
Can't help with the clown or details of the treatment, someone else will be along I'm sure.
And honestly right now a bigger concern would just be keeping the fish in QT healthy, do a water change if there's ammonia reading on the badge, don't add prime or any other detoxifier.
Fix your rock when you have the time but if it's an established system you should be fine, make sure everything in there is okay (no buried or crushed corals or inverts), and start your 76 day clock. Now's also a nice time to get a new coral and just stick it right in your tank BTW since you've got to do 76 days anyway.
Good luck with your treatment.

 

[starypotter]

You could use a turkey baster to remove uneaten food between water changes, and make sure you know all the ins and outs on how to run a fallow period. https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/fallow-periods-going-fishless.190324/

 

[Big G]

Did you add any Biospira or Dr. Tims to help with the good bacteria to consume ammonia?
If both eyes are cloudy on the clown that usually is a symptom of a bacterial infection. These are very common with velvet as the parasites create so many insertion points into the fish. A wide spectrum antibiotic like kanaplex or Furan2 work well.
The velvet parasite is partially photosynthetic. So leaving the tank lights off at least until the Cupramine is up to therapeutic level is a good plan. Yes, the second dose brings Cupramine up to therapeutic level. Did you get a Seachem Copper Test kit to make sure you are at therapeutic level? The only copper test kits that work with Cupramine is Seachems and Salifert.

 

[PcDr32]

Ran to Petco to get an ammonia badge. (They did not have a copper Test Kit.) They also did not have Dr Tims. I picked up Imagitarium Biological Booster. is it too late to add it?

While gone the Big Clown fish went to join his little brother. Only ones left are the Yellow tang, and the Blue *******!

 

[Big G]

It's ok to add bio boosters like Biospira, Dr Tims as needed. Better if you add before copper, but necessity overrides. The Cupramine dosage is pretty close to dead on. But remember when calculating that a 40 gallon is not actually 40 gallons. Here's a calculator so you can estimate total gallons of tank size for dosing.
http://www.firsttankguide.net/calculator.php
When you get the time later, it's better if you actually measure the gallons by using liquid measure.

 

[Humblefish]

^^ Agree with above

FWIW; a Salifert test kit measures Cupramine pretty accurately: https://www.amazon.com/Salifert-Copper-Test-Kit/dp/B002MB1TQE

 

[PcDr32]

Salifert Copper test will be here tomorrow. I will wait until it arrives for the next dose of cupramine. I have noticed both surviving fish are huddled in the corner until i turn on the overhead light. At what point do i want to put the light back on the timer?

 

[PcDr32]

So it only been 2 days with fish in the qt tank and the ammonia badge is showing green already. Will I need to do water changes every 2 days?

 

[Big G]

Wait at least until the copper is up to therapeutic level. The copper kills the "free swimming"

So it only been 2 days with fish in the qt tank and the ammonia badge is showing green already. Will I need to do water changes every 2 days?

Do water changes as needed. I've done daily changes many times on quickly setup hospital tanks. Takes a bit of time for the badge to adjust each time you do a change.

 

[PcDr32]

what are your thoughts on the lights? The fish seem much more active and happy with them.

 

[Big G]

I leave my QT lights off until copper is at therapeutic levels. Ok for ambient window/door light or a bit of light in the room from a table lamp. I use a small flashlight to check on the fish for symptoms, feeding etc.

 

[PcDr32]

@Big G ....got the copper up to therapeutic levels. Everyone seems to be adjusting to the new qt tank. Both survivors are eating. Since I definitely want to get some more live stock after losing some much. Would now be a good time to add them to the qt tank and profalacticly treat them with copper along with the survivors? Or am I thinking too far ahead? I assume this qt will cycle to some degree, and will the additional live stock make things worse?

 

[Big G]

@Big G ....got the copper up to therapeutic levels. Everyone seems to be adjusting to the new qt tank. Both survivors are eating. Since I definitely want to get some more live stock after losing some much. Would now be a good time to add them to the qt tank and profalacticly treat them with copper along with the survivors? Or am I thinking too far ahead? I assume this qt will cycle to some degree, and will the additional live stock make things worse?

The clock would start all over again when you add new fish. That being said, yes, it would be a good time as long as you don't tax or overload with too much of a bioload on your QT. Having a good amount of "cushion" as far as bioload in a fresh QT is a very good thing. And then there is the shock to any new fish being added into a QT already at therapeutic level to consider. Some fish are fine with it; some fish's organs and immune systems don't do too well.

 

[4FordFamily]

I always QT in batches, it’s as good of a time as any!

@Big G has you taken care of quite well!

 

[PcDr32]

How many fish would you recommend? Any fish you recommend or warn against?

 

[Big G]

How many fish would you recommend? Any fish you recommend or warn against?

That is a great question. If you are adding them in already at therapeutic level, the "copper sensitive" fish like wrasses, anthias, puffers, some dwarf angels, come to mind as those to avoid. This chart might help you decide. Especially read Meredith's comments at the end. Lots of experience speaking there.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/fish-and-treatment-guidelines-with-chart.283450/#post-3449648

 

[PcDr32]

Thanks @Big G that tread is awesome.

 

[PcDr32]

Next question. Would it be wise to use the water change water from my DT as water change water in the new QT to help establish the good bacteria? Or use 50% DT water and 50% new mix?

 

[starypotter]

Next question. Would it be wise to use the water change water from my DT as water change water in the new QT to help establish the good bacteria? Or use 50% DT water and 50% new mix?

Just new water, if you're still having ammonia problems you could consider adding more bacteria, I don't see how much you added before, perhaps try a different brand. But just keeping up those water changes with fresh water would be the best way to handle it. It looks like it was concluded that it might be velvet, but regardless of what disease or parasite is infecting your fish, if you add water from your display you could just be reintroducing it to your fish if you're using the 'infected' water. Also make sure you add the copper to the new water before you put that water into the tank, if you add fresh water then add new copper it'll mean the copper level has dipped below therapeutic levels and you will need to start your clock again.

In terms of doing it to establish bacteria in the future, very little bacteria actually lives in the water, it's mostly on surfaces.