Can we talk grounding probes quick?

[Brian_68]

Ground probes are a good idea if you are using a GFCI to power the tank as it gives an alternative path so that the GFCI can operate immediately when a fault occurs. I'm not a fan of them if you don't use a GFCI as at low amperages they become an alternate conductor which may not involve enough current flow to trip a breaker making them a defacto heating element and as such a fire hazard.

I am unsure how it is a fire hazard, it is impossible to pull more current than is supplied by your house breaker / wiring and hopefully that is not a fire hazard / heating element in itself. The ground probe is in essence a short wire diverting potential current to ground. If you have a dead short in the tank you certainly will know it as the breaker will trip. A GFCI relies on circuitry to sense the current and as most have find out one time or another they fail, ground wires do not.

 

[fermentedhiker]

I am unsure how it is a fire hazard, it is impossible to pull more current than is supplied by your house breaker / wiring and hopefully that is not a fire hazard / heating element in itself. the ground probe is in essence a short wire diverting potential current to ground.

Because the ground probe wiring is a smaller gauge it can overheat long before it draws enough current to trip the breaker that feeds the circuit.

 

[Dragon52]

Titanium Heater here as well.

 

[Brian_68]

Because the ground probe wiring is a smaller gauge it can overheat long before it draws enough current to trip the breaker that feeds the circuit.

Yes a ground probe typically does have smaller gauge wire. For reference though a 22 gauge stranded wire has a resistance of about 16 ohms per 1000 feet so a 6 ft ground probe will have 0.1 ohms resistance. With 15 amps current going thru it that equates to about 22 watts across the whole 6 ft length of wire....... I am not sure that heat would be a generate a fire at 22 watts, or that you could even notice it.

 

[fermentedhiker]

Yes a ground probe typically does have smaller gauge wire. For reference though a 22 gauge stranded wire has a resistance of about 16 ohms per 1000 feet so a 6 ft ground probe will have 0.1 ohms resistance. With 15 amps current going thru it that equates to about 1.5 watts across the whole 6 ft length of wire....... I am not sure that heat would be a generate a fire at 1.5 watts, or that you could even notice it.

The maximum rated current for 22 gauge wire(your example) is 7 amps beyond that it will start to overheat which will increase it's resistance which changes the math. Arc fault breakers were created(partly) because lamp cord type extension cords overheat and start fires at current levels below what will trip a breaker and they are heavier gauge than a typical ground probe.

 

[Brian_68]

The maximum rated current for 22 gauge wire(your example) is 7 amps beyond that it will start to overheat which will increase it's resistance which changes the math. Arc fault breakers were created(partly) because lamp cord type extension cords overheat and start fires at current levels below what will trip a breaker and they are heavier gauge than a typical ground probe.

My ground probe is 18 gauge, 22 was an example that yes has a lower current rating than 18...

 

[fermentedhiker]

My ground probe is 18 gauge, 22 was an example that yes has a lower current rating than 18...

I just did a double check and lamp cord style extension cords are listed as usually 18 gauge and aren't supposed to carry any more than 5 amps. So the risk is there, but I'm not telling anyone what to do, just why I do what I do.

 

[willieboy240]

DIY.
use a stainless steel bicycle spoke for the tank side. Connect a wire to it. Then strip the other end and plug that into your ground outlet. Super cheap. My friend that owns a fish store has them on all his tanks.

 

[fermentedhiker]

DIY.
use a stainless steel bicycle spoke for the tank side. Connect a wire to it. Then strip the other end and plug that into your ground outlet. Super cheap. My friend that owns a fish store has them on all his tanks.

Not really a good idea. Stainless isn't that stainless in saltwater, which is why the commercial ones are titanium. Also for the sake of a good connection you shouldn't just stick it in the ground on your outlet, you should at least use a replacement cord end and connect the wire to the ground pin so that you can be sure it is making a good connection.

 

[Archibald J McLauchlin]

In the manual for the ecotech vectra m2 it was recommended to put one in, so I did.

 

[Matt Carden]

I bought an electronic glass breaker and mounted it to the side of my tank. Then I split the power cord out. I ran the the ground to my house ground as normal. I stripped the hot wire and put the bare copper in my tank. Now if i get any stray voltage, it activates the glass breaker and shatters the side of my tank. That way, all the water leaks out immediately (reduces shock for me) and it activates quick enough that my fish won’t be electrocuted. Now I am just waiting for the stray voltage before the copper kills my corals.

I really hope this is a joke that no one else caught onto!

 

[kiMxD]

I wanted to understand what the titanium heaters have to do with all this? I am completely ignorant to electricity, but I do have the BRS largest titanium heater in both my aquariums, does it solve the ground probe thing? Thanks!

 

[GK3]

I really hope this is a joke that no one else caught onto!

Finally someone saw this. I was thinking that was pretty funny but then it was dead quiet. Or maybe just not that funny...

 

[piranhaman00]

I wanted to understand what the titanium heaters have to do with all this? I am completely ignorant to electricity, but I do have the BRS largest titanium heater in both my aquariums, does it solve the ground probe thing? Thanks!

The titanium heater will act as the grounding probe. I would personally put in a grounding probe anyway just to be sure.

This thread is about GFCI but good info about grounding probes. https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/gfci-outlet-poll.680609/page-7#post-6954876

 

[Albertan22]

I can confirm that fish are affected by voltage in a tank and that it’s not a case of a “bird on a wire”. While trying to replace the pump on a skimmer several years ago I broke a glass heater in my sump without realizing it. The next morning every fish in my tank was dead except my yellow watchman goby. All the fish had tried to either bury themselves into the sand or jam themselves into the rock work. All I can think of is that the sand somehow provided some relief by grounding them a bit and maybe that’s why the goby survived and the rest tried to bury themselves. It was pretty horrific and now I have a grounding probe. The GFCI did not trip at all during this event but tested just fine and was functional. It didn’t trip because there was no ground for the stray current.

 

[piranhaman00]

I can confirm that fish are affected by voltage in a tank and that it’s not a case of a “bird on a wire”. While trying to replace the pump on a skimmer several years ago I broke a glass heater in my sump without realizing it. The next morning every fish in my tank was dead except my yellow watchman goby. All the fish had tried to either bury themselves into the sand or jam themselves into the rock work. All I can think of is that the sand somehow provided some relief by grounding them a bit and maybe that’s why the goby survived and the rest tried to bury themselves. It was pretty horrific and now I have a grounding probe. The GFCI did not trip at all during this event but tested just fine and was functional. It didn’t trip because there was no ground for the stray current.

And this is why a GFCI and ground probe are essential to have together. Good info, sorry for the event though.

 

[ccombs]

Finally someone saw this. I was thinking that was pretty funny but then it was dead quiet. Or maybe just not that funny...

I got a good laugh lol.

 

[dadnjesse]

DIY.
use a stainless steel bicycle spoke for the tank side. Connect a wire to it. Then strip the other end and plug that into your ground outlet. Super cheap. My friend that owns a fish store has them on all his tanks.

Stainless steel will rust in saltwater

 

[Brian_68]

Not to derail the safety side of the discussion but has anyone ever come across even one case of someone that died with an aquarium and electricity? Googling it comes up empty. If so then keeping aquariums are pretty safe in general.