Can you over acclimate a fish?

[BarbH]

Was wondering what the opinions of others are if it is possible to over acclimate a new fish? I came across the idea a few days ago that it is possible to over acclimate your fish, this was after having picked up a new fish this past Friday. Friday afternoon I picked up another blue green chromis to add to the two additional fish that I had gotten the week previous. When I got home I set up a drip acclimation for the fish and acclimated him for about 2 hours. I then added him to the qt tank, everything seemed fine. The new addition was active and swimming around, a little bit smaller than the other two, but did not notice any aggression going on. The next day before I was getting ready to leave for work I noticed that I did not see the new fish swimming around in the tank like it had been previously. I looked and found him laying on his side under one of the pvc elbows. I moved the elbow and he would move a little but was not uprighting himself. Unfortunately I did not have time to do anything since I noticed this as I was needing to head out the door for work. I got home from work on Saturday evening to find the fish dead, the other two fish acting perfectly fine. I have an ammonia alert badge that is on the qt tank which was not registering any ammonia, and tested the water no ammonia or nitrites.

A few mistakes that I made in hind sight is that I did not ask what they were keeping their specific gravity at, something that I did this morning and found that it is where mine is at. The other thing that I did which I decided was a mistake was that they had just gotten those fish in that afternoon. After the stress of shipping and them being placed into the store tank I have decided that if I do get any more fish from them that I will wait a few days at least before doing so.

The only other disappointing thing was that when I talked to the store manager on Sunday I was told that they had no type of guarentee on their saltwater fish, and even though from what I knew that I did everything right before adding the fish to my tank and that it was dead in less than 24 hours they would not do anything about it. I have decided to give them one more chance and try once more, we will see what happens. I did make sure to express to them my disappointment with my experience with them and had informed them that orginally I had been planning on getting my fish through them. But after this past experience I am now hesitant about doing so and considering ordering my fish online through a place that will at least give me some type of guarentee and for that I would be willing to pay the extra expense of shipping.

 

[Eggs]

I've always wondered about excess time because there is no filter or liverock for the fish that is being acclimated; but I have acclimated longer periods for more delicate fish, or more expensive fish and didn't have problems. I wound't think a chromis would require a long acclimation process.
That said, it sounds like the fish just came in unhealthy, or as you said possibly excess stress from allot of traveling over a short period of time. The other two may have also bullied it some, which would have also added more stress.
I ordered a lyretail anthias trio from Divers Den and one of the females died two days after receiving them. The other two were just fine.

 

[Loki]

My only concern on over acclimating is temp. I drip acclimate into a 5 gallon bucket and the temp on an hour or so acclimation drops a few degrees(I've never measured it).

 

[BarbH]

It is possible there was some bullying that I did not see, but I do have my qt tank set up across from the couch on the other side of the room. Which allows me to be able to observe eveyone quite often while I am home. Things seemed fine before everyone took their places for sleeping at night. All I can think is that it was either the way that I acclimated the fish or that it was already in a weakened state. I think one of the things that really bothers me was the attitude of the manager. They are the only place locally that sells sw fish the next closest places are about 30 to 40 miles away. I would think that to try to keep local business that they would be willing to keep a customer happy especially when they say that it sounds like you did everything right also :noidea:

That is a good point Loki about the temp.

 

[fsu1dolfan]

My only concern on over acclimating is temp. I drip acclimate into a 5 gallon bucket and the temp on an hour or so acclimation drops a few degrees(I've never measured it).

Yup this is usually my biggest issue in dripping. I have seen how quickly temp can drop due to this method without a heater. I have tried a new method of leaving the bag or tupperware in the tank and every 5 mins add about 1/3-1/4 of a cup of my tank water. This way temp stays constant and my salinity gets where i need it over a small period of time. Not as nice as a drip but gets the job down. I just recently did this with some turbos and i didnt lose any....whereas the other way i have.

 

[el richie]

My while acclimation lasts about 45 minutes to an hour, I dont think anything over that will do any good.

 

[feh]

Fish / inverts that take longer to acclimate to salinity, ph and so... I generally pop back in the tank in a bag to bring back up to temp before releasing.

 

[Mike&Terry]

I doubt it had anything to do with your acclimation. Our acclimation time is usually dependent on the differences in salinity between the water the fish is in and our QT as some vendors keep fish in lower salinity (1.019 for example). For delicate fish, I just match the salinity and ph in my QT to the water in the bag and skip the drip. I can then make the adjustments much more slowly with out worrying about ammonia or the temp dropping and it's less stressful for the fish.

-Terry

 

[richardb]

acclimation

Yeah i agree, i don't think your acclimation process was the issue. Im a firm believer in stress, if you were a fish and you were pulled out of your home placed in a net, then in a bag,then in a cooler, for who knows how long while your tossed in a plane to be shipped to who knows where and placed in a tank with a bunch of other strangers then here comes another net scooping you up and your placed in another bag and your put in another cooler tossed on another plane and you arrive at a local fish store where you start to get comfortable yeah your a little nervouse, mad, people are staring at you and then here comes another net scooping you up and here we go in to another bag, in to a car and another strange tank with other fish you dont know yeah stress has a lot to do with fish death and local fish stores should take better care of there fish because in my opinion life of a fish for us starts there.

 

[JSemour]

I have a fairly simple way that I've used to acclimate animals to water chemistry and keep the temperature stable. You'll need a couple things; a basic ATO setup(an aqualifter pump, airline, airline valve, float switch [you will need to wire this together]), gallon jug or bucket, rubberbands, and additional airline.

Set the float switch up in a jug or bucket(magnets work well for this) so that it will turn off after about a gallon. Poke two small holes in the bag. Insert and rubberband airline through these holes. One of these lines will be the aqualifer output. Float the bag. Place the aqualifter input line in the tank and attach the output line from the bag to the pump. Take the other line on the bag and place it in the bucket. Turn it on. Wide open, it will pump one gallon of tank water through the bag and into the bucket in 20 minutes. This will replace 99-100% of the bag water with tank water during this time. Once a gallon has gone through, the switch will turn off the pump, and you can add the animal.

With the airline valve, you can slow the flow if you would like, but IME, that's not necessary most of the time. It's also a good idea to set a timer on your cell phone or the like, to remind you when they are ready. I lent my extra ATO setup to a coworker, so I can't really show you how it works, but it is fairly simple to setup and use.

 

[BarbH]

Thanks for the replies everyone. With how I did my acclimation the flaw that sticks out to me is that I did not take into account the fact that because of the time length there was a difference in the temp of the acclimation box and the tank. Something that I need to make sure to take into account in the future. I know that some fish just aren't able to make the adjustment well, but I do hate to think that something that I over liked added to it's stress.

Sent from my SCH-R720 using Tapatalk 2

 

[mfdrookie516]

I just float the bag in the sump while dripping from the DT... about 2 hours. Never had an issue. I'd agree that your issue wasn't related to your acclimation, but more to the overall health of the fish.

 

[Trex]

The time to be careful is when you have your fish/inverts shipped, or have a very long drive back from the LFS -- the issue is the ammonia that is built up in the back. When the bag is sealed, it really isn't an issue. However once it is opened the pH changes (( can't recall if it goes up or down at this moment, little foggy from getting a needle put in my spine this afternoon )), and the ammonia becomes a big issue. At that point, any drip acclimation can cause big problems, up to death.

If this is the case, the best course of action is to move the fish/invert into "new" water -- that matches the salinity of the bag, and then acclimate it to your tank's level.

 

[BarbH]

The time to be careful is when you have your fish/inverts shipped, or have a very long drive back from the LFS -- the issue is the ammonia that is built up in the back. When the bag is sealed, it really isn't an issue. However once it is opened the pH changes (( can't recall if it goes up or down at this moment, little foggy from getting a needle put in my spine this afternoon )), and the ammonia becomes a big issue. At that point, any drip acclimation can cause big problems, up to death.

If this is the case, the best course of action is to move the fish/invert into "new" water -- that matches the salinity of the bag, and then acclimate it to your tank's level.

Thanks Trex, something to keep in mind if and when I order fish online. If my understanding of the relation of pH and ammonia are correct I believe that the pH would increase and that ammmonia at a higher pH is more toxic. From my time in doing fw tanks if the pH is below 7 than any ammonia in the water is found in the form of ammonium which is not toxic.

 

[Mike&Terry]

Thanks Trex, something to keep in mind if and when I order fish online. If my understanding of the relation of pH and ammonia are correct I believe that the pH would increase and that ammmonia at a higher pH is more toxic. From my time in doing fw tanks if the pH is below 7 than any ammonia in the water is found in the form of ammonium which is not toxic.

Barb, that is correct. :bigsmile:

 

[mfdrookie516]

Thanks Trex, something to keep in mind if and when I order fish online. If my understanding of the relation of pH and ammonia are correct I believe that the pH would increase and that ammmonia at a higher pH is more toxic. From my time in doing fw tanks if the pH is below 7 than any ammonia in the water is found in the form of ammonium which is not toxic.

That's close. Here's a series of charts that shows toxicity. Temp and pH together play a part in it. Ammonia Toxicity

 

[BarbH]

That's close. Here's a series of charts that shows toxicity. Temp and pH together play a part in it. Ammonia Toxicity

Thanks will have to check that out. To think that when I had been in school science was one of my least favorite subjects, just needed something that would spark my interest.

 

[robert]

I'm going to be alone on this but I believe in the shortest acclimation time possible, (with the possible exception of shrimp-which I give a little longer but not much). Usually a ten to fifteen minute adjustment time total, diluting the packaging water with tank water ~15% every couple of minutes - after about 3 ~15% additions, I pour off half and add three more ~15% scoops and then net the fish and drop them in with the lights out.

I think less time in the bag is better...I trust my water...I have no faith in what they come from.

 

[JSemour]

Thanks will have to check that out. To think that when I had been in school science was one of my least favorite subjects, just needed something that would spark my interest.

Funny you should say this. My aquarium interest as a kid spurred my interest in the world of science. I was lucky though, I got my first aquarium on my fourth birthday. I can't remember much from back then, but I vividly remember my 20 gallon full of neon tetras. Oh the stories I tell about that aquarium...

I'm going to be alone on this but I believe in the shortest acclimation time possible, (with the possible exception of shrimp-which I give a little longer but not much). Usually a ten to fifteen minute adjustment time total, diluting the packaging water with tank water ~15% every couple of minutes - after about 3 ~15% additions, I pour off half and add three more ~15% scoops and then net the fish and drop them in with the lights out.

I think less time in the bag is better...I trust my water...I have no faith in what they come from.

You're not alone Robert. I only acclimate for about 20 minutes. Typically to a salinity of 24-25 ppm(I always use hypo to prophylactically treat my fish) and 7.8-8.0 pH, no matter what type of fish. The next day I do ~50% pH corrected, freshwater water change to bring things to full hypo, 11-12 ppm. Never an issue. Disease and overall health are bigger factors than acclimation for new fish IMO.

 

[richardb]

Just to give an idea of what i have always done for acclimation, I use a 5 gallon bucket and a drip line obviously, I float the bag that the fish or what ever it may be for 10 minutes or longer,pour fish and water into the 5 gallon bucket drip for 1 to 2 hours sponges and some stars up to 3 or 4. reason for such long acclimation periods is a lot of fish coral and inverts can not handle ph and salinity spikes or drops and temp changes to cure the temp problem go to petco or petsmart and spend 10 on a 10 gallon heater and lay it down in the bucket calibrate it in your tank first. i may over kill acclimation but i dont like losing money lol