Cannot keep a BTA alive!

[Floyd-]

I have a mixed reef tank and all the LPS, SPS and soft corals do well but every BTA I have in the tank looks good for a few weeks then slowly turns into a small wad of gum and dies.
I dont directly feed them. not sure what PAR they need, some say high some say low. Right now they are at about 150 par where they moved to.
Other specs are:
temp-79
salinity- 35 ppt
nitrate- 3.4
ph-7.8
cal-450
mag-1380
alk-9.4
phos-.1

 

[exnisstech]

Are you getting all from the same supplier? I've had bubble tips for years and find them very hardy. I don't remember ever loosing one except in shipping. Mine are high up in the tank under 300 par but I have kept them in less but not sure how much lower as I didn't have a par meter back then. Your parameters look OK. My alk is a little lower at 8 and pH a little higher at 8.2 but has been 7.8 when tested before but I don't test it often.

 

[Greybeard]

You might be luckier than you think ;D

I picked up a small rainbow BTA a couple of years ago. Now, I have one bommie completely covered by BTA's, and the 2nd bommie on it's way. There's probably 20 nems in there now, and I've given away a half dozen of them. What few corals I have left are eventually going to be lost, if I don't give them away first. When BTA's find your tank comfortable, they can overgrow it in a big hurry!

On the off chance you're interested in parameters, pH 8.1, Calc 612, Alk 9.43, Mag 1102, Temp 77.5, Plain 'ol Instant Ocean, dosing nothing but Kalkwasser. I don't feed the nems directly, but I do feed fairly heavy, including a chunk of Rod's original daily. That's what the nems seem to like. Flow is as random as I can make it. Lighting is 2x Kessel AP700's at 50% intensity, mounted in an aquaticlife hybrid, with 2 Blue+ and 2 AB Specials. Monthly 10% water changes... that's about it.

 

[unchaotic]

Everyone in my town ends up with tanks almost completely full of nems. I think my record for keeping one alive is 1-2 months.

I bet one could live in my office tank, but it's only 40 gallons and I'm not risking all of my SPS.

 

[Spare time]

I have a mixed reef tank and all the LPS, SPS and soft corals do well but every BTA I have in the tank looks good for a few weeks then slowly turns into a small wad of gum and dies.
I dont directly feed them. not sure what PAR they need, some say high some say low. Right now they are at about 150 par where they moved to.
Other specs are:
temp-79
salinity- 35 ppt
nitrate- 3.4
ph-7.8
cal-450
mag-1380
alk-9.4
phos-.1

What test kits are you using? The par value is fine (albeit I don't know the spectrum which arguable is equally important). I would also consider feeding them at least once a week.

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

Have you had an icp test done? Turning into goo in a few weeks is definitely Not caused by light, nitrates, phosphates, alk or lack of feeding. BTA are hardier than that.

ICP test could show metals in the water. There could also be a bacteria that is attacking them.

Have you gotten every one of your failed attempts from the same place?

 

[92Miata]

So we have BTAs slowly wasting away?


What are you using to measure nitrates? How much error range is there? IME, BTAs are hungry - and the combination of low nitrates and no feeding isn't a great one. How big is the tank and how much do you actually feed it.

 

[Floyd-]

Have you had an icp test done? Turning into goo in a few weeks is definitely Not caused by light, nitrates, phosphates, alk or lack of feeding. BTA are hardier than that.

ICP test could show metals in the water. There could also be a bacteria that is attacking them.

Have you gotten every one of your failed attempts from the same place?

I had an ICP done not too long ago and the test came back without any issues.
I got two from different stores and the last one was from a friends tank. That one split and was happy for a few weeks but now they are all small with maybe .25" -5" sticking out.
I use reefbreeder lights and the PAR at the rock they are at might be 150 or so. I can def dial them up since im only at 65% blues.

 

[Floyd-]

So we have BTAs slowly wasting away?

What are you using to measure nitrates? How much error range is there? IME, BTAs are hungry - and the combination of low nitrates and no feeding isn't a great one. How big is the tank and how much do you actually feed it.

Hanna checker for testing nitrates. I dont spot feed any of my corals. The tank is 175 gallons and its fed once a day a custom frozen mix made by a local reefer.

 

[92Miata]

Hanna checker for testing nitrates. I dont spot feed any of my corals. The tank is 175 gallons and its fed once a day a custom frozen mix made by a local reefer.

If you're not willing to feed an animal that's showing the signs of starving to death, you need to stop trying to keep them.


BTAs are typically found in intertidal zones that are frequently turbid. They don't need to be fed, but they need food. They need significantly more nitrogen and phosphorus availability (via inorganic in the water column, or food) than SPS corals do.

Again, how much do you feed?

 

[Floyd-]

If you're not willing to feed an animal that's showing the signs of starving to death, you need to stop trying to keep them.

BTAs are typically found in intertidal zones that are frequently turbid. They don't need to be fed, but they need food. They need significantly more nitrogen and phosphorus availability (via inorganic in the water column, or food) than SPS corals do.

Again, how much do you feed?

Most places I read state just as you have. They dont need to be fed and get nutrients from the lights like most corals. I can try actually feeding it and see what happens but its goes against most things I have read. Other than an auto feeder during the day I can only feed once a day when I get home. No other corals or fish have had issues with this tank being setup for more than a year. Even some of the fish are getting round with one feeding a day.

 

[92Miata]

Most places I read state just as you have. They dont need to be fed and get nutrients from the lights like most corals. I can try actually feeding it and see what happens but its goes against most things I have read. Other than an auto feeder during the day I can only feed once a day when I get home. No other corals or fish have had issues with this tank being setup for more than a year. Even some of the fish are getting round with one feeding a day.

Besides the multiple other BTAs? You can't extrapolate from "These conditions are fine for this acro" to "These conditions are fine for this anemone" - they come from different environments and have different needs.

They can only get sugar (carbon) from the light. They need nitrogen and phosphorus and a ton of other things. If you don't have high enough levels of these things in the water column, they will need to be fed.


Whoever is telling you that anemones don't need food - just cross them off of your list of people to listen to about reef organisms. Anemones are all heavy feeders. You may or may not need to spot feed, but they all need to be fed.

 

[Spare time]

Most places I read state just as you have. They dont need to be fed and get nutrients from the lights like most corals. I can try actually feeding it and see what happens but its goes against most things I have read. Other than an auto feeder during the day I can only feed once a day when I get home. No other corals or fish have had issues with this tank being setup for more than a year. Even some of the fish are getting round with one feeding a day.

Light does not provide nitrogen. The zooxanthellae and corals need nitrogen. Light just provides the energy input for "food" production. However, you need the bases of the "food" to make anything in the first place (i.e. nitrogen, phosphorus, hydrogen, oxygen, carbon, etc.). If you don't want to target feed them, then consider dosing an amino acid product/blend.

 

[Floyd-]

They can only get sugar (carbon) from the light. They need nitrogen and phosphorus and a ton of other things. If you don't have high enough levels of these things in the water column, they will need to be fed.

Nitrates at the moment are 3.4 bu its normally at about 10-15.
Phosphates are at .1 and rising last I checked.

I can run another round of tests tonight and see where those lie.

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

If you're not willing to feed an animal that's showing the signs of starving to death, you need to stop trying to keep them.


BTAs are typically found in intertidal zones that are frequently turbid. They don't need to be fed, but they need food. They need significantly more nitrogen and phosphorus availability (via inorganic in the water column, or food) than SPS corals do.

Again, how much do you feed?

An anenome is not starving to death in weeks. I've accidently bottomed out nutrients Multiple times for two weeks or more. Nems don't look super stoked but still good. Attributing that they are starving to death within Weeks without direct feeding is super dramatic.

OP is showing both major dissolved nutrients and adequate PAR.

GUESS how often Any of these anenomes are directly feed...

Never is the correct answer. Anyone starving to death? 3.1 no3, .09 po4.

 

[Spare time]

An anenome is not starving to death in weeks. I've accidently bottomed out nutrients Multiple times for two weeks or more. Nems don't look super stoked but still good. Attributing that they are starving to death within Weeks without direct feeding is super dramatic.

OP is showing both major dissolved nutrients and adequate PAR.

GUESS how often Any of these anenomes are directly feed...

Never is the correct answer. Anyone starving to death? 3.1 no3, .09 po4.

Depends on how much nitrogen from fish metabolic waste is getting to the anemones. It is also never a good thing to say "it doesn't happen to me therefore it can't be happening to anyone" when trying to find what is causing an issue in someone's tank as reef tanks are highly variable. Its best to approach these issues by getting things to a baseline healthy standard for the life of the organism and then moving from there. Typically, an anemone in a low nitrogen environment without feeding or a clownfish may struggle. Therefore, its best to have the OP remove as many confounds as possible

 

[92Miata]

An anenome is not starving to death in weeks.

You need to go back and reread the OPS post. You know what, I'll just quote it for you:

every BTA I have in the tank looks good for a few weeks then slowly turns into a small wad of gum and dies.

They're not starving to death in a couple weeks - they look good for a couple weeks, then they start showing visible signs of starvation. The "Starving to death" is happening over a period much longer than weeks.

And again, the fact that you don't have to direct feed your anemones is irrelevant, because the OP still will not tell us how much he feeds - so we have no idea how much food these things are getting when he feeds his fish.

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

Depends on how much nitrogen from fish metabolic waste is getting to the anemones. It is also never a good thing to say "it doesn't happen to me therefore it can't be happening to anyone" when trying to find what is causing an issue in someone's tank as reef tanks are highly variable.

Have you ever spoken with someone who claims they starved an anenome to death, in weeks?

I agree that if it works for me, that doesn't mean it works for Everyone.

None of us Know what is going on, and are trying for a fix.

Find me A person who has starved a bta to death, by not direct feeding for weeks With measurable nitrates and phosphates. I don't think this person exists. Prior to dying they bleach from starvation. This is a slow process. Anemones can and do hide under caves and in the dark for weeks to months at a time.

I am open to there being another issues And don't think low blows at the OP stating they are unwilling to feed a starving animal is helpful.

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

You need to go back and reread the OPS post. You know what, I'll just quote it for you:



They're not starving to death in a couple weeks - they look good for a couple weeks, then they start showing visible signs of starvation. The "Starving to death" is happening over a period much longer than weeks.

And again, the fact that you don't have to direct feed your anemones is irrelevant, because the OP still will not tell us how much he feeds - so we have no idea how much food these things are getting when he feeds his fish.

Thanks for quoting it, Now where does it say from the OP that it is starving to death?

The language I see used is turning into a wad of gum and dies...

No mention of starvation, That is not a normal starvation protocol for anenomes either. Turning into gum and dying, Is usually a bacterial issue from what I have Seen and experienced.

 

[92Miata]

Thanks for quoting it, Now where does it say from the OP that it is starving to death?

The language I see used is turning into a wad of gum and dies...

No mention of starvation, That is not a normal starvation protocol for anenomes either. Turning into gum and dying, Is usually a bacterial issue from what I have Seen and experienced.

Here's a post of his:

BTA not opening?!

Parameters are: Temp: 76f Salinity: 1.024 Nitrate: 2.2ppm Phosphate: .04ppm PH:8.1 Alk:8.3 Cal:460 Mag:1440 I have 3 BTAs and they are not opening. They wander around a bit but other than a peek to open a tiny bit they dont extend their arms. I think PAR was about 250-300 where they are.

www.reef2reef.com

7 months, then not opening, then shrinking that directly coincides with reducing nutrients in his tank. That's classic starvation. Anemones shrivel up into a wad of gum and die via pretty much every cause of death (besides being chipper shreddered).


And again, I don't know why you keep bringing up "weeks". At no point, ever, has he said they're dying over weeks. He said they're fine for weeks.

Again:

every BTA I have in the tank looks good for a few weeks then slowly turns

Again, they are not dying in weeks. Your argument is against a figment of your imagination.