Can't decide filtration for new frag tank

[Reefs and Geeks]

I recently bought a deep blue 30 gallon frag tank 30" x 30" x 12" with corner overflow and am in the planning stages of setting it up in my basement. I plan in using the frag tank to hold and grow frags from my 150g display that I will sell/trade to further fuel the hobby. The goal is to have something that is stable, relatively low maintenance, and able to adequately house SPS coral frags. While I plan on running this tank with a sump, I also plan on taking it to frag swaps so want to be able to set it up in a way that I can plug the drains and use it sump-less during a frag swap, then bring it home and connect the sump back up to keep everything as stable as possible, and allow the connivance of running a larger sump.

Being that I may expand at some point to multiple frag tanks, I intend on setting up a sump that would be large enough to run several frag tanks from to make maintenance easy and keep all tanks the same perimeters at all times. So a sump that is overly large for a 30 gallon frag tank is fine as I have the space and would like the ability to expand without having to start from scratch.

Now for the things I can't decide:

1) What would be better, A skimmer or a fuge? I'm leaning towards a fuge, but have never run one before. Would running a skimmerless frag tank be wise?

2) What would be a good option for a sump that has room to expand to add additional frag tanks? I'm all for DIY and saving $, so thinking either a used glass aquarium with baffles added, or possibly one of those plastic stock tanks that you see on commercial set ups. How large would you go for say up to 120 gallons worth of frag tanks?

3) Are fish necessary/beneficial for a frag tank? I know fish poo is a good source of nutrients for coral, so I'm thinking that would be a good idea. What fish plan would be good for a 30 gallon frag tank for the purpose of optimizing coral health?

4) What kind of CUC would be recommended for a BB frag tank set up? Something that would keep the frags clean and looking good without knocking them over. For sure no urchins as they are always messing with my frags in my display tank. I can't frag zoas untill I have a separate tank as the urchins keep ripping them off the frag plugs.

I'm sure I'll have plenty more questions moving forward, but those are what I've been wondering the most about before getting started. I know this will be a slow process for me as I'm constrained by budget, but hoping I can sell a few frags here and there to help keep it moving along. Having been in the hobby for 6 years, I've developed plenty of patience.

 

[Dr. Dendrostein]

I recently bought a deep blue 30 gallon frag tank 30" x 30" x 12" with corner overflow and am in the planning stages of setting it up in my basement. I plan in using the frag tank to hold and grow frags from my 150g display that I will sell/trade to further fuel the hobby. The goal is to have something that is stable, relatively low maintenance, and able to adequately house SPS coral frags. While I plan on running this tank with a sump, I also plan on taking it to frag swaps so want to be able to set it up in a way that I can plug the drains and use it sump-less during a frag swap, then bring it home and connect the sump back up to keep everything as stable as possible, and allow the connivance of running a larger sump.

Being that I may expand at some point to multiple frag tanks, I intend on setting up a sump that would be large enough to run several frag tanks from to make maintenance easy and keep all tanks the same perimeters at all times. So a sump that is overly large for a 30 gallon frag tank is fine as I have the space and would like the ability to expand without having to start from scratch.

Now for the things I can't decide:

1) What would be better, A skimmer or a fuge? I'm leaning towards a fuge, but have never run one before. Would running a skimmerless frag tank be wise?

2) What would be a good option for a sump that has room to expand to add additional frag tanks? I'm all for DIY and saving $, so thinking either a used glass aquarium with baffles added, or possibly one of those plastic stock tanks that you see on commercial set ups. How large would you go for say up to 120 gallons worth of frag tanks?

3) Are fish necessary/beneficial for a frag tank? I know fish poo is a good source of nutrients for coral, so I'm thinking that would be a good idea. What fish plan would be good for a 30 gallon frag tank for the purpose of optimizing coral health?

4) What kind of CUC would be recommended for a BB frag tank set up? Something that would keep the frags clean and looking good without knocking them over. For sure no urchins as they are always messing with my frags in my display tank. I can't frag zoas untill I have a separate tank as the urchins keep ripping them off the frag plugs.

I'm sure I'll have plenty more questions moving forward, but those are what I've been wondering the most about before getting started. I know this will be a slow process for me as I'm constrained by budget, but hoping I can sell a few frags here and there to help keep it moving along. Having been in the hobby for 6 years, I've developed plenty of patience.

Reading about different members having their sump or tank in the basement and pH being low if it was my tank I would add a lot of macroalgae chaeto, 2 off balance any pH issues in the future. I would actually have 2 sumps 1 would be lit through the daytime then I would light the other one through the night.. maybe a little overboard but now it's got me thinking about two sumps.

 

[Reefs and Geeks]

Thanks for the reply, I never really thought about 2 sumps on one system. Would the sole purpose of that be to allow 24/7 lighting in the fuge? Could that be accomplished instead by having 2 separate fuge sections in the sump lit on opposing lighting schedules?

I'd be worried about 2 sumps, because that would mean 2 return pumps, and 2 drains. If one return pump failed, the second would keep going, and the sump with the failed pump could overflow because the display would keep draining untill the second sump ran dry.

 

[Dr. Dendrostein]

Thanks for the reply, I never really thought about 2 sumps on one system. Would the sole purpose of that be to allow 24/7 lighting in the fuge? Could that be accomplished instead by having 2 separate fuge sections in the sump lit on opposing lighting schedules?

I'd be worried about 2 sumps, because that would mean 2 return pumps, and 2 drains. If one return pump failed, the second would keep going, and the sump with the failed pump could overflow because the display would keep draining untill the second sump ran dry.

Even I didn't think of that one two sumps but separated, you can still just use one pump have the water flow through the first then it'll flow through second sump, using the same pump using one pump. The trick would be to completely Shield light going into the sump that is lit at night. When I can afford it I'll definitely try this.

 

[Dr. Dendrostein]

Even I didn't think of that one two sumps but separated, you can still just use one pump have the water flow through the first then it'll flow through second sump, using the same pump using one pump. The trick would be to completely Shield light going into the sump that is lit at night. When I can afford it I'll definitely try this.

And when I mean first sump then second sump I mean like Chambers.

 

[Reefs and Geeks]

That makes sense. Sheilding the light wouldn't be too hard if you planned for it in advance. With clear baffles would be a pain, Maybe wedge in a sheet of colored plastic next to the baffle? If planned in advance, the baffle could just be solid black to start.

I've heard of people running their fuge 24/7 also, but doesn't seem common. Never had a fuge myself, but I imagine plants also need a lighting cycle for best health/growth.

 

[Reefs and Geeks]

Another thought on using a large sump for a small tank...would there be an issue with salinity fluctuation with top off? In a normal tank, the return section of the sump is where the evaporation shows, so the float is in there and only a small amount of evaporation can trigger the ATO due to the small chamber size. That in relation to the system volume is very small, so no real salinity fluctuation would happen. However, with a small display, and lets just say a stock tank with a large surface area, would the evaporation be significant and cause an ATO to not work well? Is there a way to add a return section or baffle to a plastic stock tank if one was used to help regulate the evaporation height to keep a stable salinity?

 

[Dr. Dendrostein]

Whatever you do, IF POSSIBLE, install air pump outside home, to get fresh air to tank. Helps too

 

[BeejReef]

You're a number of years ahead of me in the hobby. Still, I like your idea of the stock tank, such as https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/p...oam-stock-tanks-100-gal-capacity?cm_vc=-10005

They make 60 and 150g variants, and the prices are all within $50 of each other.... food safe.
I'm no expert on fuge size, or fuge v skimmer, but for a fraction of the price of a "sump" you get a huge, durable, adaptable space that you can customize with egg crate, corrugated plastic, superglue, etc. If you need more water volume, just fill it up higher! If it's way more than you need, dedicate one side of it to cycling and maturing live rock for sale. I bet if you took hunks of coraline coated LR to a frag swap, it'd sell long before all the frags.

Anyhow, that's my take. Hobby cool, refined and quiet up in the dining room, but the basement is Tonka-style. Ofc, added bonus is you have a 100+ gallon "oh-shi*" safe place for valuable livestock if you have a bad issue with your DT. I'm guessing a 150g fuge will filter your frag tanks until it's time to consider an addition to the house or a garage for aquaculture Someday!

 

[Reefs and Geeks]

That's the idea, I want filtration that's able to handle as many frag tanks as I'd ever reasonably want to run. I do have a nice area that's maybe 8 or 10' long by maybe 3' front to back that I'll be able to use for frags alone. I'm thinking I'll make a stand that's that size, and just add frag tanks as I expand and just tap into the same sump. Each tank would just need lighting, a small return pump, and a powerhead. being the basement, it doens't need to look like a display, but just kind of nice so my wife doesn't think it's an eye sore. Luckly, she's very supportive of the hobby and gets somewhat involved as well. She can name most of the coral I have and comes with me to frag swaps...etc. She's actually the one that suggested I set up a frag tank, which I of course am not going to turn down.

I was leaning towards a 75 gallon glass tank, or a stock tank for the sump/fuge. Either would be nice, and give an emergency area to house fish or anything from my main display if needed. I'm just not sure how easy the stock tanks would be for things like baffles or separating areas of the sump. Cost is always a factor and I'm pretty handy, so DIY is often a way I go for many things. Heck, If I came across a good deal on a large leaking glass tank I may jump on it. I've fixed large glass tanks before and still going strong.

 

[BeejReef]

That's the idea, I want filtration that's able to handle as many frag tanks as I'd ever reasonably want to run. I do have a nice area that's maybe 8 or 10' long by maybe 3' front to back that I'll be able to use for frags alone. I'm thinking I'll make a stand that's that size, and just add frag tanks as I expand and just tap into the same sump. Each tank would just need lighting, a small return pump, and a powerhead. being the basement, it doens't need to look like a display, but just kind of nice so my wife doesn't think it's an eye sore. Luckly, she's very supportive of the hobby and gets somewhat involved as well. She can name most of the coral I have and comes with me to frag swaps...etc. She's actually the one that suggested I set up a frag tank, which I of course am not going to turn down.

I was leaning towards a 75 gallon glass tank, or a stock tank for the sump/fuge. Either would be nice, and give an emergency area to house fish or anything from my main display if needed. I'm just not sure how easy the stock tanks would be for things like baffles or separating areas of the sump. Cost is always a factor and I'm pretty handy, so DIY is often a way I go for many things. Heck, If I came across a good deal on a large leaking glass tank I may jump on it. I've fixed large glass tanks before and still going strong.

Yeah, it depends on your basement. I forget some people have fairly nice living areas down there. Mine is an old gravel floor and exposed rubble-rock foundations. There's nothing I could put down there that would make it look worse But it's mine, all mine. Wife hates spiders, kids hate monsters, and I make sure they all know it has plenty of both!

Sounds like your wife is a serious keeper! Well done, on all fronts.

 

[Dr. Dendrostein]

Another thought on using a large sump for a small tank...would there be an issue with salinity fluctuation with top off? In a normal tank, the return section of the sump is where the evaporation shows, so the float is in there and only a small amount of evaporation can trigger the ATO due to the small chamber size. That in relation to the system volume is very small, so no real salinity fluctuation would happen. However, with a small display, and lets just say a stock tank with a large surface area, would the evaporation be significant and cause an ATO to not work well? Is there a way to add a return section or baffle to a plastic stock tank if one was used to help regulate the evaporation height to keep a stable salinity?

I forgot to show you my refugium before I moved. 10/2017, setup just when i returned again reef keeping. Had 80 oysters, clams,abalone, chaeto, etc.... all for 24 gallon DT

 

[Dr. Dendrostein]

5/2 add a 46 gallon DT, made 24 DT into refugium, 47 oysters for starters.

Hard core reefing

 

[BeejReef]

5/2 add a 46 gallon DT, made 24 DT into refugium, 47 oysters for starters.

Hard core reefing

That's awesome! So, no skimmer, no filter socks, just let the algae and the oysters filter the water?

 

[Reefs and Geeks]

Very interesting! never heard of oysters as part of filtration. Are they just the ones you'd find at the supermarket? What exactly is their purpose and how good of a job do they do? any risk in keeping them such as sudden die off, or releasing anything into the tank...etc?

 

[Dr. Dendrostein]

These oysters hardy, not all market oysters hardy these seem to be. I've tried many kinds. I use as pre-filter before 16 gallon canister filter. And if they spawn food for corals. Have a chiller that bypass filter to DT.