Can't seem to get any growth

[TMB]

You're getting some great advice here from some that are really good at this and have tons of experience. @jda, @2Wheelsonly, @Flippers4pups, and others are spot on here. There isn't much else to say that they haven't. The best way that I can explain it is that SPS corals do something I call "idling" when they get a little upset (and it doesn't take much), idling means they stop growing and just sit for a bit to see if things improve. So if there is an event that causes "idling" weekly, then you will see very slow growth. SPS corals like "long run" periods of what they like, and that's when you will see growth spurts. If you have been lucky enough to see this you'll know what I'm talking about.

With a ULNS system, and dosing multiple agents, there is an increased chance of small upsets to the corals, and my guess is that's why you're getting no growth.

Go with what they're suggesting and simplify your process.

 

[FunkEngine]

So it sounds like I need to increase nitrates while more or less maintaining phosphates. I've stopped the carbon dosing aspect of the zeo system, but will probably continue to does the "food" products that I have for now. I also agree with the sentiment that zeo really needs to be more clear on what's actually in these bottles, and it took me a while to get over the fact that I was probably buying snake oil.

I have two fish right now, and am looking to add more whenever the right specimens show up at the lfs or diver's den.

I do have pest algae, but it grows at a pretty glacial pace, likely because of the low nutrients, but maybe because of spectrum as well. For instance I need to clean the glass really only every few weeks before the dusting gets heavy enough to be visually intrusive.

I have acquired a par meter and my SPS are getting about 170 right now. So not as high as I had thought. Should I (slowly) increase this or leave it alone?

Tentative game plan is to get some sodium or potassium nitrate to dose up to something like 5ppm detectable. And maybe adjust the lights after seeing what other input I get.

 

[Bouncingsoul39]

Corals aren't starving, from what you've said, it has nothing to do with your water. It's your light. That's it. Get a new light that's proven to grow SPS. Stop Zeo and let the new light run for a couple months before resuming. Light needs to be both in the proper spectrum, intensity, and needs UV diodes to get good growth and color out of SPS.

 

[FunkEngine]

Corals aren't starving, from what you've said, it has nothing to do with your water. It's your light. That's it. Get a new light that's proven to grow SPS. Stop Zeo and let the new light run for a couple months before resuming. Light needs to be both in the proper spectrum, intensity, and needs UV diodes to get good growth and color out of SPS.

I believe that the hardware of the light is very good. I have several UV diodes with peak ranges at 410, 420, and 430nm. I have deep royal blues with peaks at 440, and traditional luxeon royal blues. I'm using neutral whites with 90+ CRI as well. I think in terms of spectrum I need less white and more blue. There's still plenty of gas in the metaphorical tank for output. That said, if I absolutely cannot get the light to work for me I will have to abandon it, but as of right now there's a fair amount of money invested in the light and I really don't have the cash to drop on kessils or a radeon.

 

[TMB]

Post some pictures of your tank and corals - a picture is worth 1000 words as they say. I think everyone is going to tell you 170 par is way too low. But I don't know your options for increasing. I also think that with some pictures of your corals and set up, you will get better guidance for how to go forward.

There is 1 very specific reason I'm running MH. Someone I trust once told me that "LED's are great IF you know what you're doing with them, and you're already good with SPS. Until then stick with MH lighting". This advise has served me well for a few years now. It is not that LED's don't work - they certainly do - it is just one more variable while we're learning to trip us up.

 

[Bouncingsoul39]

I believe that the hardware of the light is very good. I have several UV diodes with peak ranges at 410, 420, and 430nm. I have deep royal blues with peaks at 440, and traditional luxeon royal blues. I'm using neutral whites with 90+ CRI as well. I think in terms of spectrum I need less white and more blue. There's still plenty of gas in the metaphorical tank for output. That said, if I absolutely cannot get the light to work for me I will have to abandon it, but as of right now there's a fair amount of money invested in the light and I really don't have the cash to drop on kessils or a radeon.

Maybe so, then you just need to up your intensity, over the course of a couple weeks bringing you to the magic number of 250-350 par. And how old are those uv diodes and what are they capped with? Read that they don't last long...

 

[FunkEngine]

So I've started to dose nitrates in the form of spectracide stump remover. I've made up my own little blue potion bottle of saturated KNO3 and I've been dosing 635ul a day which increases the tank level by 1ppm. I've tested each day before and so far it has gone back down to zero by the next day. Obviously I haven't noticed any difference in corals in the last few days, but algae on the glass has taken off with more growth since dosing started than the 3 weeks previously since I cleaned the glass.

Phosphates have held at .02ppm, but I'll be monitoring them every few days as well to try to keep up with the nutrients in the tank.

I picked up a couple frags of acropora that were on sale, they're pretty brightly colored right now, so we'll see how they do. I figure that their coloration will either hold or fade faster than the existing frags will color up, so it should give me a faster gauge on if my actions are effective or not.

I'm cautiously optimistic, but I'll be watching algae growth closely to make sure I don't create another problem.

 

[FunkEngine]

Well hit a stumbling block. Algae growth has taken off and I'm a little confused as to why. Ive stopped dosing nitrates the last couple days in reaponse to this.

I'm a little confused since I've only increased nitrates by 1ppm 7 times, and it always returns to 0 by the next day. Phosphate started low at .03 and remains low at .01 when I checked yesterday. I count those as basically the same measurement between device accuracy and test variance.

Before dosing nutrient levels were basically the same and algae growth was absolutely glacial, taking multiple weeks to dust the glass. Combined with my pale corals this leads me to believe that algae growth was not masking higher nutrients. Which makes the current situation more confusing and frustrating.

Is this just the adjustment pains of raising nitrates? That the algae is going to grow until it becomes limited by a different nutrient (like phosphorus)?

I also realize I should start a new thread about nitrate dosing, but I want to log the changes here if nothing else.

 

[jda]

If you have algae actively growing, then you have PLENTY of nutrients. I would not add any more.

Look to the lights. Add some T5s and see if that helps your DIY LEDs out.

 

[FunkEngine]

If you have algae actively growing, then you have PLENTY of nutrients. I would not add any more.

Look to the lights. Add some T5s and see if that helps your DIY LEDs out.

I just don't understand how I can simultaneously have symptoms of high nutrients and low nutrients. Worst case I'd have about 7ppm Nitrate and .01ppm Phosphate, which is hardly what I would call high nutrient. Yet I got an explosion of algae in the last few days. At the same time my coral are almost white under typical house lights and very pale under reef lighting.

As I said before, I'm increasing the output on my lights right now, so I'm not going to be throwing more money at new lighting solutions until I can more conclusively determine that my setup right now is deficient in some way.