Captain America, Green Flame, and Unattainables

[Wy Renegade]

Probably should have asked before posting the Death paly group thread, but does anybody know . . .

Are Captain America
CoralPedia.com! :: The definitive repository for named Corals!

Green Flame
CoralPedia.com! :: The definitive repository for named Corals!

and/or Unattainables
CoralPedia.com! :: The definitive repository for named Corals!

and Perhaps these;
CoralPedia.com! :: The definitive repository for named Corals!

or any others perhaps in the same grouping of palythoa as Nuclear Green and Purple Death?

 

[Nanofins]

The Green Flame do not appear to be in the same genus, but the rest (Captains, Purple Deaths, Nuclear Greens, Unattainables, Nuclear Death) are all in the Protopalythoa genus, and all have fairly similar attributes, aside from color. Tutti Fruiti also appear to be a zoa of some sort; def. don't look like Protopalys.

 

[Wy Renegade]

The Green Flame do not appear to be in the same genus, but the rest (Captains, Purple Deaths, Nuclear Greens, Unattainables, Nuclear Death) are all in the Protopalythoa genus, and all have fairly similar attributes, aside from color. Tutti Fruiti also appear to be a zoa of some sort; def. don't look like Protopalys.

Thanks Nanofins - some of the sources I sorted through stated that the protopaly group is molecularly indistinguishable from palythoa - any thoughts on this?

 

[Nanofins]

They may be significantly similar at the molecular/genetic level, but they have obvious morphological differences to the naked eye. Sometimes genetics gets too close and overlooks the obvious big-picture stuff.

If you have the Protopalys right in front of you, there is no mistaking them for others. They (Protopalys) will all readily incorporate *significant* amounts of substrate into their outer tissues. I have not seen anything to come close in any other types of polyps. I have some captains in the sand with sugar-fine sand, and they have so much sand adhered to their stalks and coenchyme that they look pure white when closed. They're just coated in the stuff. No other paly or zoa does this. All of the Protopalys in what I would call the Death Paly group also have the little nodules on the tentacles on either side directly in line with the slit of their mouths. I've also noticed these nodules on the grandis too, though, I believe--those appear more similar morphologically. Aside from that, they also seem to share a significantly similar polyp structure and growth pattern. Just my .02.

 

[650-IS350]

agree with you on that Zach.

 

[Nanofins]

I would also includet the Lunar Pastures and a few others in the Death Group as well. They also appear to be Protopalys.

 

[xraided199]

very good point about the protos. before knowing how diff an actual zoa can be from this group, i would just call them all zoas, but realize now how diff they can be. also, the protos love to accept food it seems. most of my actual true zoas close up and "hide" from food when it floats by them. it seems they are more protecting themselves from it, when i used to think they were closing up to eat a chunk that flew by.

it is really amazing how the proto family has such distinguishable qualities when really looked at and examined. they are just some of the coolest and most beautiful zoa-type creatures ever

 

[Wy Renegade]

They may be significantly similar at the molecular/genetic level, but they have obvious morphological differences to the naked eye. Sometimes genetics gets too close and overlooks the obvious big-picture stuff.

If you have the Protopalys right in front of you, there is no mistaking them for others. They (Protopalys) will all readily incorporate *significant* amounts of substrate into their outer tissues. I have not seen anything to come close in any other types of polyps. I have some captains in the sand with sugar-fine sand, and they have so much sand adhered to their stalks and coenchyme that they look pure white when closed. They're just coated in the stuff. No other paly or zoa does this. All of the Protopalys in what I would call the Death Paly group also have the little nodules on the tentacles on either side directly in line with the slit of their mouths. I've also noticed these nodules on the grandis too, though, I believe--those appear more similar morphologically. Aside from that, they also seem to share a significantly similar polyp structure and growth pattern. Just my .02.

Thanks Zach, good stuff. So would you say that while the Death paly group is distinctive in the incorporation of sand grains, the other group of "invasive" protopalys is distinct only in the rate at which they reproduce and the fact that their color is not as "electric" as the Death paly group? Also, hope you don't mind if I use some of your comments to revise the Death paly catalogue. Also if you don't mind, can you post of pictures of any of these you have in the Death paly catalogue? Thanks again.

 

[Nanofins]

No prob. I personally group the "invasive", non-desirable (by some) varieties with the popular protopalys as far as identification is concerned. Not all within the genus are going to be equally as colorful or desirable. I personally consider a lot of them like the camo-type, lunar pastures, and nuclear death to be less impressive, but they've still earned distinguished status with names. Certainly any Death Pack put together wouldn't likely include the regular cinnamon or bland green types, but they all share the same characteristics physically. To be honest, I don't know that the invasive varieties reproduce any faster either--we just don't want them to. My nukes, purples, and captains grow great and I would consider them comparable to most other Protopalys. Feel free to use my comments as you see fit. I'm no authority, but those are my observations/opinions. I'll try and dig up some pictures of mine to post in the other thread.

 

[Wy Renegade]

No prob. I personally group the "invasive", non-desirable (by some) varieties with the popular protopalys as far as identification is concerned. Not all within the genus are going to be equally as colorful or desirable. I personally consider a lot of them like the camo-type, lunar pastures, and nuclear death to be less impressive, but they've still earned distinguished status with names. Certainly any Death Pack put together wouldn't likely include the regular cinnamon or bland green types, but they all share the same characteristics physically. To be honest, I don't know that the invasive varieties reproduce any faster either--we just don't want them to. My nukes, purples, and captains grow great and I would consider them comparable to most other Protopalys. Feel free to use my comments as you see fit. I'm no authority, but those are my observations/opinions. I'll try and dig up some pictures of mine to post in the other thread.

I'll appreciate the pictures. Just for clarification on my part Zach, are you including the common button polyps in this group as well? In my observation the button polyps tend not be as colonial (if that word makes sense) as the "Death paly" group, and have a tendancy to spread throughout the aquarium. To be honest, I've never really stopped and looked to see if they appear to have the grainy texture or not. Also, if I'm not mistaken (and I believe you referenced it earlier as well) Palythoa grandis species also exhibit this uptake of sandy material into their column/mat structure? So would they be included within the same grouping?

I guess what I'm thinking (to share my thoughts out loud), is that perhaps a broadening and title change for the other thread is in order. And I'm trying to get an idea of what all should be included in it. The Death paly title is one I'd seen elsewhere, but since only a few of the palys in question have death in their name, it seems to perhaps be a little lacking.

 

[Nanofins]

I guess I probably wouldn't include all of them, as not all seem to look/behave the same, but many of what get referred to as cinnamon palys and some of the other green button polyps do seem to fit, both in size, as well as physical characteristics (tentacle nodules, sediment incorporation, disk pattern/texture, etc). There are others that do seem similar but slightly different; they usually tend to come in as hitchhikers with zoa colonies and are only present as a few large polyps in most cases. The line here can get fuzzy. The grandis share a great many similarities with those in the Death Paly Group. I think they're in a different genus with the true Palythoas, but by my eyes they are more similar to Protopalys than zoas or other typical "Palythoas". Here again some confusion can arise, though, since many of the polyps we refer to as Palys are not really Palythoas, so, take this all with a grain of sand.