carbon doseing. vodka and vinagar

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I always read that people are doseing one or the other...
would it be better to maybe mix the 2 like 50/50?????
I saw one post on here that had stated mixing all three
vodka, vinegar, and sugar....
what would be the ratio on that??????
 
Many people and many commercial products use more than one. There are lots of different ratios people use.

I personally do not see even a theoretical reason why more than one is "better", but it certainly works fine.
 
FWIW, I use just vinegar, but NOPOX from Red Sea uses several organics, and if you want to DIY NOPOX, here's a recipe (it ignores the small amounts of methanol and isopropanol, and any non-organic elements that might be in it):

Mix one part vinegar to one half part vodka and one half part water. If you want to get even closer, add a little more vodka and a little less water.
 
I use vinegar as well. I also got dinoflagellates for the first time in 12 years within a few months of vodka dosing. Not sure if it is a coincidence or what. Not the first I had heard it though.
 
I use vinegar in one tank and vodka in another tank. Neither one does anything for po4 in my opinion, only nitrates. Even though everyone on the boards say vinegar helps more with po4.

I also add calcium hydroxide to the vinegar because otherwise it drops my alk too much.
 
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I use vinegar in one tank and vodka in another tank. Neither one does anything for po4 in my opinion, only nitrates. Even though everyone on the boards say vinegar held more with po4.

I also add calcium hydroxide to the vinegar because otherwise it drops my alk too much.

I've never claimed any particular carbon source is any different with respect to phosphate, but Red Sea may think it does in their NOPOX description.

Anyway, vinegar doesn't reduce alkalinity (at least not after it is consumed by organisms), but it does reduce pH. All organic carbon dosing reduces pH similarly, but vinegar does a lot of its drop immediately, while vodka and other organics only reduce pH when they are metabolized to CO2. :)
 
I've never claimed any particular carbon source is any different with respect to phosphate, but Red Sea may think it does in their NOPOX description.

Anyway, vinegar doesn't reduce alkalinity (at least not after it is consumed by organisms), but it does reduce pH. All organic carbon dosing reduces pH similarly, but vinegar does a lot of its drop immediately, while vodka and other organics only reduce pH when they are metabolized to CO2. :)

Spell check got me that should have said helps not held. Either way thanks for the clarification. Also I never said you said that, it's just all over the boards people make that claim, no one specific.
 
I use vinegar as well. I also got dinoflagellates for the first time in 12 years within a few months of vodka dosing. Not sure if it is a coincidence or what. Not the first I had heard it though.
Do you think I should write something up about carbon dosing and the increase of bacterial populations?
I have seen a lot of threads that had issues start when dosing was started.
 
Do you think I should write something up about carbon dosing and the increase of bacterial populations?
I have seen a lot of threads that had issues start when dosing was started.
Only if it gets stickied. Someone starts a similar thread several times a day.
 
Randy do you already have something written up on this fact?
 
ok dumb question.....
if i'm doseing this why would I add water????? :/
n what about the sugar??
 
n I tried nopox... when't thru 4 large bottles n saw no dif.... so am fig'n why bother nopox at that price.....
 
n I tried nopox... when't thru 4 large bottles n saw no dif.... so am fig'n why bother nopox at that price.....
So you "saw" no difference??
This manages no3 what was the before and after reading?
 
ok dumb question.....
if i'm doseing this why would I add water????? :/
n what about the sugar??

I'm not a fan of sugar as it seems to lead to more problems than other forms, and it is not included in NOPOX, which is the DIY I gave. The water is there to match NOPOX in potency. There's no reason to add water otherwise.
 
Randy post #10 I will get right on it if none exist
 
Randy do you already have something written up on this fact?

Just discussions like this one. I do mention concerns over problems from bacteria:

Nitrate in the Reef Aquarium - REEFEDITION
http://www.reefedition.com/nitrate-in-the-reef-aquarium/


9. Organic Carbon Dosing

Organic carbon dosing involves adding a soluble organic compound to the aquarium which spurs bacterial growth. Typical organics used can be ethanol (as vodka), acetic acid (as vinegar), calcium acetate (as lime saturated vinegar), sugar (sucrose) and many others. Vodka and vinegar are by far the most popular. I use vinegar.

These organic molecules can be used by many organisms, including corals, but the main intent is to drive bacterial growth. To grow, the bacteria need a source of nitrogen and a source of phosphate, and a large portion of these they remove directly from the water. The bacteria may grow out of sight (inside live rock or sand, in refugia, in tubing, etc.). They may also grow in globs in the display tank. They have to grow somewhere. If they become unsightly, try dosing a different organic that may drive a different set of species that may grow in a different location. I’ve had them often seem to grow on GAC (granular activated carbon media) in a canister filter I previously used, allowing relatively easy export by rinsing the GAC once every couple of weeks.

I’ve never heard any plausible argument why dosing multiple organics at once is desirable, but many people do it and there is likely no harm in doing so. The idea that multiple organics drive a diversity of bacterial species is just speculation, and even if true, I don’t see the benefit.

The bacteria themselves can then be skimmed out, or used as a food for filter feeders, or both (most people probably have both to some extent, unless they do not use a skimmer). The bacteria may grow partly in low O2 regions (such as in sand or rock) and partly in highly oxygenated environments. Since metabolism in low O2 regions uses relatively more nitrate than phosphate compared to metabolism in a high O2 environment, the relative amounts of nitrate and phosphate reduction an aquarists observes may vary from system to system.

Nitrate is always reduced to a greater extent than phosphate simply because bacteria need a lot more nitrogen than phosphorus, but metabolism of organics in low O2 regions may skew it even more, and sometimes can leave the aquarium with little nitrate and an excess of phosphate that they bacteria don’t “want”. In such a case, a phosphate binder might usefully export this remaining phosphate. Alternatively, some aquarists have dosed nitrate directly to the aquarium to allow the residual phosphate to be consumed.

These linked articles describe vinegar and vodka dosing in more detail:
http://reefkeeping.com/joomla/index...ar-dosing-methodology-for-the-marine-aquarium
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2008-08/nftt/

One potential drawback that may have played a role in some tank problems is that the bacteria that thrive when organic molecules are dosed may be benign (and appear to be in almost all cases), but might actually be pathogenic in others. That is, the added organics may enhance bacterial infections if those bacteria causing the infection (of fish, corals, etc.) are able to take up the added organics and use them to grow faster. I think this risk is low, but it may be real. If you have unexplained problems that might fit this description, and are organic carbon dosing, try not dosing for an extended period.

A second potential drawback of organic carbon dosing is the potential for proliferation of unsightly cyanobacteria in the display tank. There are many species of cyanobacteria, and some can consume the organics we add in this method. If they become a primary consumer, then something may need to be done, such as switching to a different organic compound to dose, or reducing phosphate with a binder such as GFO (granular ferric oxide).
 

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