Carbon dosing causing deterioration of palythoa?

[Halal Hotdog]

Hey guys, so this is what I have observed. I have been carbon dosing for months now, and at my peak was dosing 70mL/day into a 160-170 gallon total volume system. Before I started I had higher nutrients based on film algae growth on glass, salifert test kits always showed zero for nitrates and phosphates. Started carbon dosing and started cleaning my glass once every 1.5-2 weeks. One thing I did notice my fruit loops zoas looked incredible in that nutrient level, but slowly my palys (Le goblin fire, vivid rainbow, latin lovers, pandora, utter chaos, and gobstoppers) started retracting more and more everyday. My vivid rainbows had 7 polyps melt away during that time. My zoas (bamsbams, rockstars, fruit loops, emeralds on fire, eagle eyes, and aquaman) were looking better than ever and growing at a normal rate. 2.5 weeks ago I completely stopped carbon dosing but kept reducing phosphates with Lanthanum Chloride. Since than my palys are slowly starting to come around. The utter chaos, LE goblin fire, vivid rainbows, and pandora palys are starting to opening back up. The gobstoppers still retracted. Zoas still look good and still growing normally, but have to say fruit loops looked the best at the peak of carbon dosing. Nitrates and phosphates still test zero. All other parameters stayed unchanged during this process.

So I figured one of two things possibly happened. Carbon dosing took my nitrates so low that my palys started suffering, or bacterial population started irritating palys and no other coral.


Anyone else experience this?

 

[zachxlutz]

Hey guys, so this is what I have observed. I have been carbon dosing for months now, and at my peak was dosing 70mL/day into a 160-170 gallon total volume system. Before I started I had higher nutrients based on film algae growth on glass, salifert test kits always showed zero for nitrates and phosphates. Started carbon dosing and started cleaning my glass once every 1.5-2 weeks. One thing I did notice my fruit loops zoas looked incredible in that nutrient level, but slowly my palys (Le goblin fire, vivid rainbow, latin lovers, pandora, utter chaos, and gobstoppers) started retracting more and more everyday. My vivid rainbows had 7 polyps melt away during that time. My zoas (bamsbams, rockstars, fruit loops, emeralds on fire, eagle eyes, and aquaman) were looking better than ever and growing at a normal rate. 2.5 weeks ago I completely stopped carbon dosing but kept reducing phosphates with Lanthanum Chloride. Since than my palys are slowly starting to come around. The utter chaos, LE goblin fire, vivid rainbows, and pandora palys are starting to opening back up. The gobstoppers still retracted. Zoas still look good and still growing normally, but have to say fruit loops looked the best at the peak of carbon dosing. Nitrates and phosphates still test zero. All other parameters stayed unchanged during this process.

So I figured one of two things possibly happened. Carbon dosing took my nitrates so low that my palys started suffering, or bacterial population started irritating palys and no other coral.


Anyone else experience this?

What are your current nutrient levels? What kits are you testing with? What are your goal nutrient levels?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Lots of people have issues with nutrients too low. Now that aggressive methods like carbon dosing and GFO are available, people need to recognize that more is not always better.

What organic were you dosing?

 

[Halal Hotdog]

I was dosing a 5% vinegar solution, and everything except the palythoa were doing great in that environment. My softies were not growing at all, but they looked healthy. LPS and SPS looked fantastic.

 

[ectoaesthetics]

Palys are also spot feedable.. Your zoas will not be (so I’m glad that they are looking good at lower levels). Many will say that you can spot feed zoas, and they might be right, but I personally have seen no evidence that they take to spot feedings nor seen them grow any faster with them.

Might try going back to your 5% and try spot feeding your palys...? I would try something dense like reefroids (mixing to -sludge density- and not to package directions). Might get them the nutrients they need while allowing you to drop the tanks overall nutrient levels.

 

[Halal Hotdog]

So the ironic thing is I have been spot feeding with reef roids this entire time. During carbon dosing I was feeding and they were continuing to retract day after day. Continued spot feeding after I discontinued the carbon dosing and the feeding response was the same, but everyday they are opening more and more. Food type, time of day fed, and frequency all stayed the same. I think I was just stripping my water of all nitrates.

On a side note I have been able to keep the film algae growth to a minimum on my glass by removing just phosphate and leaving the nitrates alone.

 

[zachxlutz]

So the ironic thing is I have been spot feeding with reef roids this entire time. During carbon dosing I was feeding and they were continuing to retract day after day. Continued spot feeding after I discontinued the carbon dosing and the feeding response was the same, but everyday they are opening more and more. Food type, time of day fed, and frequency all stayed the same. I think I was just stripping my water of all nitrates.

On a side note I have been able to keep the film algae growth to a minimum on my glass by removing just phosphate and leaving the nitrates alone.

Keep your eyes peeled for dinoflagellates. You don't want to strip your water too much and invoke the wrath of the dinos.

 

[Halal Hotdog]

I didn't know dinos were a result of excessively stripping the water. I was getting dinos in my overflow and in my sump, which led me to increase my carbon dosing to try to eliminate them. Since eliminating carbon dosing the dinos have started to reduce.

 

[zachxlutz]

I didn't know dinos were a result of excessively stripping the water. I was getting dinos in my overflow and in my sump, which led me to increase my carbon dosing to try to eliminate them. Since eliminating carbon dosing the dinos have started to reduce.

There's a thread on here with lots of info regarding low nutrients and dino problems. Lots of folks see relief from dinos by running 5-10 ppm NO3 and 0.10 ppm PO4. Species ID is important as some enter the water column (making them UV susceptible) and others don't. Best of luck!

 

[Halal Hotdog]

I feel as my nitrates are going up (still reading at 0 Sailfert kit) the little Dinos I had are naturally slowly going away. My overflow is almost completely resolved, but my sump still having issues. I have also turned down my protein skimmer, while carbon dosing I had to change out the collect cup every 3 days. Now I could let it go for weeks without filling up.