Carbon dosing input request :D

[ionix]

Hi, looking for some input (whether its scientifically or experience gained) on Carbon Dosing.

I am basically going to put my knowledge out there and hopefully you guys will be able to tell me what you think.


I dose sugar, every 3 days with a teaspoon of sugar, 1ML of vinegar on the sides of the tank (reduces and removes build-up). 40g cube DT, 40g long sump


Now here comes the knowledge/critical thinking:

I dose carbon primarily to have inorganic chains join the organic chain of the carbon, so that it becomes organic; therefore becoming "skimmable."

Though I feel there are secondary uses in chance that it is ineffective (inorganics have been limited). I feel that the sugar can be uptaken by bacterium to be used for aerobic respiration, therefore increasing the rate of the division which increases skimmate production.

So, if this above is all sounding correct then I ask this..

At what point does sugar dosing become toxic or non-beneficial (the dose is increased gradually), aside from putting a ridiculous amount in at once. I mean, am I really under-appreciating the true ability of sugar in vs. to vodka in toxicity or efficiency (to the point of Vodka becoming more worrisome in the attempt to match sugar)?

Please write what you think, though try to avoid assuming (I'd rather hear an incomplete truth).

Thanks xD

 

[Reefing Madness]

Ok, you know that I use Vodka, so I can't give you any comparisons or half truths against sugar, never used it, never read up on it. But, this I do know, the idea that its toxcicity ver another other is false, you have to drop an aweful lot of any of them to actually do great damage to a system.
Also, dosing anything but everyday, and your playing catch up, and actually having to dose more than you actually would if you dosed daily.

 

[ionix]

Ok, you know that I use Vodka, so I can't give you any comparisons or half truths against sugar, never used it, never read up on it. But, this I do know, the idea that its toxcicity ver another other is false, you have to drop an aweful lot of any of them to actually do great damage to a system.
Also, dosing anything but everyday, and your playing catch up, and actually having to dose more than you actually would if you dosed daily.

That is rather unexpected though I guess logical that it would take a lot to cause damage. Just a generalized feeling I guess about other chemicals in even the smallest amounts.

I would definitely agree that the dose would have to be increased to maintain a smaller range, though it is working so I didn't alter it beyond what was necessary (I forgot to state I am doing 1ML daily of vinegar).

I feel like there isn't enough information out there to justify using 1teaspoon over 3 days vs. 10 or more teaspoons over 3 days.. : /

Thanks by the way!

 

[mike007]

My question is your current dosing regiment working? Also from what i understand brown sugar is what's recommended. I have tried many methods and they all seem to work but i went back to vodka because of the cost. Once you get your levels stable you can figure out what is needed per day to maintain then it becomes quiet easy.

 

[Reefing Madness]

Ive stopped dosing over a 5 day span, and hd to play catch up myself. But I am quite liberal with what I feed my fish, so its necessary for me to keep up with my dosing. So even going 3 days for me and then just dosing a set amount, in a few weeks I'd have to adjust what I was dosing to play catch up.

 

[ionix]

My question is your current dosing regiment working? Also from what i understand is brown sugar is what's recommended. I have tried many methods and they all seem to work but i went back to vodka because of the cost. Once you get your levels stable you can figure out what is needed per day to maintain then it becomes quiet easy.

Nearly, but what happens when you overdose? Does it still have a good effect (as in bacterial growth) and is it worth negating the fact that your parameters are good? Should you combine doses while your levels are pristine? Aside from cost, why would you choose one over the other (not just the carbon availability as a primary source but other beneficial effects that would be found in each source)?

Ive stopped dosing over a 5 day span, and hd to play catch up myself. But I am quite liberal with what I feed my fish, so its necessary for me to keep up with my dosing. So even going 3 days for me and then just dosing a set amount, in a few weeks I'd have to adjust what I was dosing to play catch up.

So what happens if you simply put all five days doses at once? Will it still be used (maybe more importantly, by what)?


Though on the side, I believe either carbon would still be used by the bacteria. So saying they consume sugar to grow should be the same as ethanol, if I understood the materials correctly.

 

[b_rad_G]

The problem with an overdose would be that the bacteria will coat everything! I don't understand why you would want to keep increasing the dose anyways? The main reason behind daily dosing is so you can efficiently skim the stuff out. If you dosed 2 weeks worth in a day you would get a huge bloom that would probably die off in a day or so. It is unlikely you could process enough water and to skim everything out. It would also strip your tank of nitrate and probably most phosphate very fast. Rapid reduction in nutrients will cause rtn. When the bacteria dies it will reintroduced the nutrients back. Its kinda pointless.

I'm not sure on sugar but a large dose of vodka or vinegar will drop pH causing more problems.

 

[ionix]

The problem with an overdose would be that the bacteria will coat everything! I don't understand why you would want to keep increasing the dose anyways? The main reason behind daily dosing is so you can efficiently skim the stuff out. If you dosed 2 weeks worth in a day you would get a huge bloom that would probably die off in a day or so. It is unlikely you could process enough water and to skim everything out. It would also strip your tank of nitrate and probably most phosphate very fast. Rapid reduction in nutrients will cause rtn. When the bacteria dies it will reintroduced the nutrients back. Its kinda pointless.

I'm not sure on sugar but a large dose of vodka or vinegar will drop pH causing more problems.

Interesting, I currently could maintain that level of skimming. Though it is good to know that it will strip it of that if the skimmers were able to handle it, and if there were a spike, it might be a good remedy

 

[Reefing Madness]

Can't put them all in at once, they all get used up in usually a 12 hour period, and the skimmer removes them, that and you stand a chance of clouding up the tank also with a bloom because of all the bacteria growing at one time. Just like if you were getting to the highest dose at the begining.

 

[Reefing Madness]

The problem with an overdose would be that the bacteria will coat everything! I don't understand why you would want to keep increasing the dose anyways? The main reason behind daily dosing is so you can efficiently skim the stuff out. If you dosed 2 weeks worth in a day you would get a huge bloom that would probably die off in a day or so. It is unlikely you could process enough water and to skim everything out. It would also strip your tank of nitrate and probably most phosphate very fast. Rapid reduction in nutrients will cause rtn. When the bacteria dies it will reintroduced the nutrients back. Its kinda pointless.

I'm not sure on sugar but a large dose of vodka or vinegar will drop pH causing more problems.

Large dose of vinegar can cause a slight ph issue, one that would right itself in short order, but affect it nonetheless. I was dosing around 70mls at one time for lowering nitrates, didn't get high enough to actually lower anything, but that was enough to alter the ph, and I didn't want to find out how high the tank needed to go to actually lower them. Vinegar should definitely be dosed when the lights are on.

 

[ionix]

That is really interesting, I am glad I checked. I only dose 1ml of vinegar in a 80g system any way though.

I will experiment with daily. It is interesting that it gets used within a 12 hour period, I guess it is nearly trace in first place being put in?

Thank you for the interesting points guys, really answered my questions.

If there is any additional info, please post it. xD