Caribbean corals in the hobby?

[User1]

Folks...

all hard corals from Florida are illegal to possess. Except for aqua cultured live rock..that has them growing on it......

...but also...is illegal to take or sell aqua cultured rock with staghorn or elkhorn growing on it, they are specifically illegal.. All the other indigenous corals in the gulf and the keys are ok to possess...but only if growing on aqua cultured live rock.

Richard TBS
www.tbsaltwater.com

Hope the weather has been better for you. Once your backlog is cleared or you have room I may want to try a box for fun May shoot you a PM to see what you think.

 

[Casket_Case]

Folks...

all hard corals from Florida are illegal to possess. Except for aqua cultured live rock..that has them growing on it......

...but also...is illegal to take or sell aqua cultured rock with staghorn or elkhorn growing on it, they are specifically illegal.. All the other indigenous corals in the gulf and the keys are ok to possess...but only if growing on aqua cultured live rock.

Richard TBS
www.tbsaltwater.com

But I buy native corals all the time, I have native gorgonians right now and I didn’t buy live rock to obtain them.

 

[lemonade]

But I buy native corals all the time, I have native gorgonians right now and I didn’t buy live rock to obtain them.

Gorgonians are okay to have. It's the hard corals that are illegal. The big reef building species that you can legally drop your anchor on and obliterate, but take a 1" frag to grow in a tank? $1000s in fines

 

[User1]

Gorgonians are okay to have. It's the hard corals that are illegal. The big reef building species that you can legally drop your anchor on and obliterate, but take a 1" frag to grow in a tank? $1000s in fines

Well there should be a thing called responsible boaters... And to be fair 1 person taking a 1" frag may not seem too bad but what happens when it turns into 100, or 1,000? Then the additional damage they are doing under water because their buoyancy control is naught, or wrong tool, or don't care. What was just going to be a 1" frag suddenly turned into a 5 to 10 foot area damaged because of this one person.

Just looking at it from a different view. I see damaged reefs when scuba diving because a lot of divers still can't seem to figure out how much weight they should be using or won't learn simple skills like buoyancy and breathing. So yeah - that is why we have these laws is because many people are greedy, won't learn, and not considerate of others.

 

[Casket_Case]

Gorgonians are okay to have. It's the hard corals that are illegal. The big reef building species that you can legally drop your anchor on and obliterate, but take a 1" frag to grow in a tank? $1000s in fines

I thought he was talking about all corals

 

[Casket_Case]

Well there should be a thing called responsible boaters... And to be fair 1 person taking a 1" frag may not seem too bad but what happens when it turns into 100, or 1,000? Then the additional damage they are doing under water because their buoyancy control is naught, or wrong tool, or don't care. What was just going to be a 1" frag suddenly turned into a 5 to 10 foot area damaged because of this one person.

Just looking at it from a different view. I see damaged reefs when scuba diving because a lot of divers still can't seem to figure out how much weight they should be using or won't learn simple skills like buoyancy and breathing. So yeah - that is why we have these laws is because many people are greedy, won't learn, and not considerate of others.

Yeah I understand that. But I think we should be able to possess them through aquaculture. If we have them in our tanks it could help us learn more about them and potentially help them out in the wild. Just my opinion though.

 

[User1]

Yeah I understand that. But I think we should be able to possess them through aquaculture. If we have them in our tanks it could help us learn more about them and potentially help them out in the wild. Just my opinion though.

Aquaculture is the future of this hobby. Not the boutique or chop shops but aquaculture in a similar fashion to agriculture. If this hobby wants to be around 5 to 10 years from now it is all about hording what we have today and improving our propagation skills to be more efficient and cost effective. Take California rice as an example as it relates to water. Interesting story to say the least.

There really isn't a reason for us taking colonies from the ocean anymore or at least not in the quantities that may be happening. Fish to some degree as some are difficult or take a large effort. But corals? Absolutely no reason why we are not spreading our clippings more to others.

So yes, I see and understand your point. I agree. I'm a huge aquaculture fan and most if not all of my corals are from one of the aquaculture vendors.

 

[Tom Giddens]

If you want to replicate Caribbean waters, populate with photosynthetic gorgonians, zoas, rock anemones, and ricordea. All are easy to care for. If you can find one, add a Porites with Christmas tree worms but needs more effort to keep alive. Stay away from NPS gorgonians and sponges. I have them and they have different requirements than in a normal tank.

I have trouble with gorgs and Christmas worms any tips ?

 

[lemonade]

Aquaculture is the future of this hobby. Not the boutique or chop shops but aquaculture in a similar fashion to agriculture. If this hobby wants to be around 5 to 10 years from now it is all about hording what we have today and improving our propagation skills to be more efficient and cost effective. Take California rice as an example as it relates to water. Interesting story to say the least.

There really isn't a reason for us taking colonies from the ocean anymore or at least not in the quantities that may be happening. Fish to some degree as some are difficult or take a large effort. But corals? Absolutely no reason why we are not spreading our clippings more to others.

So yes, I see and understand your point. I agree. I'm a huge aquaculture fan and most if not all of my corals are from one of the aquaculture vendors.

Well there should be a thing called responsible boaters... And to be fair 1 person taking a 1" frag may not seem too bad but what happens when it turns into 100, or 1,000? Then the additional damage they are doing under water because their buoyancy control is naught, or wrong tool, or don't care. What was just going to be a 1" frag suddenly turned into a 5 to 10 foot area damaged because of this one person.

Just looking at it from a different view. I see damaged reefs when scuba diving because a lot of divers still can't seem to figure out how much weight they should be using or won't learn simple skills like buoyancy and breathing. So yeah - that is why we have these laws is because many people are greedy, won't learn, and not considerate of others.

I don't disagree with you completely

I just don't understand why something that is becoming less and less abundant, and can be propagated so easily should have such limited propagation? Yet, dumping billions of gallons of waste water/run-off is legal. Dredging and burying all stationary sea life in layers of silt is legal. Dropping 100,000s of anchors a year onto the reefs is legal, but a hobbyist can't grow out a colony of X species and sell 2nd generation frags to another hobbyist with out facing jail time?

I'm all for looking at it from a different view, but my angle is common sense, and I just don't see any of it in the laws regarding these corals. Just to be clear I'm not pro reef ****. I don't think anyone should be allowed to go out and take whatever they want, that's why there's licensing and permits for collection. I do think that growing these corals whether it be mariculture or aquaculture and making them available to the hobbyist will have a positive impact on them, though. and I hope to see it one day

 

[User1]

I don't disagree with you completely

I just don't understand why something that is becoming less and less abundant, and can be propagated so easily should have such limited propagation? Yet, dumping billions of gallons of waste water/run-off is legal. Dredging and burying all stationary sea life in layers of silt is legal. Dropping 100,000s of anchors a year onto the reefs is legal, but a hobbyist can't grow out a colony of X species and sell 2nd generation frags to another hobbyist with out facing jail time?

I'm all for looking at it from a different view, but my angle is common sense, and I just don't see any of it in the laws regarding these corals. Just to be clear I'm not pro reef ****. I don't think anyone should be allowed to go out and take whatever they want, that's why there's licensing and permits for collection. I do think that growing these corals whether it be mariculture or aquaculture and making them available to the hobbyist will have a positive impact on them, though. and I hope to see it one day

Yep - agree. A lot of noise with activism and dollars not enough cents (sense ). Probably part of the trouble is that while you and I can have the discussion the law makers can not or will not (still not sure which it is).

I was starting to hope that while a lot of the world is on lock down Mother Nature would show signs of change. I see bits and pieces starting to be reported with the most recent from Hawaii and Hanauma Bay. Will be interesting how this plays out since less tourists which equal to less in the water, less sunscreen, less trampling of corals, etc.

But yes, we're close to the same page not that it matters. We can talk and be good Others, maybe not so much which is why the environment talk is always crazy town

 

[dennis romano]

I have trouble with gorgs and Christmas worms any tips ?

Photosynthetic gorgonians prefer moderate to high light but too bright causes algae to grow on them. The algae smothers them. When it does, you have to gently clean them. I use an old toothbrush, wiping from the base up. They also enjoy a good flow. I found that the more soft, flexible ones love a strong flow, rigid ones, not so much. Two or three times a week, I broadcast feed Reefroids. Never had a chance to try Christmas tree worms but my featherdusters love a good flow and Reefroids. My sun corals get mysis and brine shrimp target fed at least once a day. Feed them after the Reefroids are in the water if the polyps aren't extended. They sense the food is in the water then open up.

 

[Doctorgori]

agree to all of the above....
corals need to undergo a domestication event no different than goldfish, et.
On another note is anyone in Florida doing a South Pacific style open air aquaculture in raceways using NSW ?

 

[Justin Aretz]

Those orange and green polyps are cool,do you sell any frags? I am in land locked Illinois

You can find some of these on occasion on www.subculturecorals.com

 

[Justin Aretz]

agree to all of the above....
corals need to undergo a domestication event no different than goldfish, et.
On another note is anyone in Florida doing a South Pacific style open air aquaculture in raceways using NSWT

Not to my knowledge, anymore, mostly because the cost of waterfront property that was anywhere near an ocean inlet mouth has quadrupled in the last 10 years. At one point back in the 80's (these are stories I've been told by my reefing mentors), they were running systems that were pulling fresh NSW at high tide, running the system for ~12 hours, and then pulling in 100% changeout water at the next high tide. Mind you this was also way before our "major" water system problems existed, at least to the extent that they do now.

Back then, SOFLO reefs were thriving, and stony corals were prevalent and even dominant. These guys had brain corals the size of a large kitchen sink. Sadly, there isn't much stony coral left around here, other than where experimental restoration efforts have planted them.

Even if we had access to property, the thought of growing non-native corals in a raceway where the water could potentially make it's way back into the waterways would be concerning. With our reef ecosystem as devastated as it is, a single outbreak of a foreign pest could potentially be the end of naturally occuring atlantic stag/elkhorn coral.

On a brighter note, I have ran many tanks on our local NSW, and it never negatively impacted any of my systems, or those I know who did the same. In fact, my experience based opinion on this was that there were probably far more free floating phytos and microorganisms than even water taken from the most well established of synthetic reef tanks.

 

[Doctorgori]

not going sideways but the lack of coral diversity in the Carribean is puzzling. What is it only 2million years it’s been separated from the Pacific.
As for raceways, seems clams would be doable.
Questions for Floridians:
are those canals and inter coastal waterways salty or brackish? Can you collect in those.
on a side note: I was at Homestead AFB for a month or so, Florida has crocs too yikes!

 

[lemonade]

not going sideways but the lack of coral diversity in the Carribean is puzzling. What is it only 2million years it’s been separated from the Pacific.
As for raceways, seems clams would be doable.
Questions for Floridians:
are those canals and inter coastal waterways salty or brackish? Can you collect in those.
on a side note: I was at Homestead AFB for a month or so, Florida has crocs too yikes!

The canals are nasty, unless you’re right inside one of the inlets at high tide.

Running NSW through raceway systems is much more doable in the keys where there’s not nearly as much urban run-off/pollution as soflo. I know there’s multiple labs and vendors down there that do this, and know of one person for sure that has indo/pacific species in his systems.

 

[borillion]

LOL send me some <3

These zoas I collected and since have Aquacultured right out of my backyard here in Palm Beach, Florida. That green plating coral was a local SPS (LPS?) (not mine nor did I collect it). Carribean elkhorn and staghorn are very brown under both full spectrum and actinic, so I wouldn’t expect them to be popular in the trade. There is a scientific institution on my block that does work with these two genus in an aquaculture setting and, though interesting, not visually appealing by today’s hobbyist’s standards.

 

[Crashnt24]

This whole thread gets me fired up. Everyone in mainstream media acts like there is nothing we can do to protect coral due to lagging climate change effects of warm weather.... well how about we address the elephant in the room of urban run off? That's the biggest problem the reefs are facing. Us as hobbyists know that corals can thrive in a wide range of temps, they cannot however thrive in polluted/ contaminated water. Especially stony corals. If you want to truly save the reefs, we need to regulate what's acceptable to put on the ground/roofs/ect that makes its way into the ocean after every rain.

Rant over lol

 

[Justin Aretz]

The canals are nasty, unless you’re right inside one of the inlets at high tide.

Running NSW through raceway systems is much more doable in the keys where there’s not nearly as much urban run-off/pollution as soflo. I know there’s multiple labs and vendors down there that do this, and know of one person for sure that has indo/pacific species in his system

Disappointing to hear. Hope it’s pest and disease free

 

[PeterLL]

Here are some coral pics on the reef by my house. Have many more and fish/critter pics. @Justin Aretz here are your zoas too

Sorry to go a bit off topic but do you have a public album or anything of the sorts with all your pictures? I absolutely love seeing corals in the wild and naturally and til I can afford a flight to a place with reefs I'm stuck with the internet lol