Carpenters wrasse

cmcoker · May 5, 2018

Added a carpenters wrasse and Molly miller blenny to qt yesterday. Both eating, still a bit shy but out for food.

Noticed these whitish areas today, not really an ich or velvet look.. thinking bacterial or maybe flukes.

Plan to start General cure tonight and see if any changes but thought I'd get some others thoughts.

Thanks

Will get a video/ better pic up later

cmcoker · May 5, 2018

Some stills

HotRocks · May 5, 2018

It does look like ich to me. Let's get some other opinions.

@Humblefish @Big G @4FordFamily @melypr1985

Do you plan to treat with copper?

cmcoker · May 5, 2018

Yes, I usually start copper about day 3 of eating.

As I look at the pics, the spot near his dorsal fin does look ich-y. The other spots have a more hazy, raised appearance and that's what has me concerned it's something more.

Big G · May 5, 2018

Consider a freshwater dip to confirm or eliminate flukes from the situation.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/video-how-to-do-a-freshwater-dip.286639/#post-3487082

cmcoker · May 5, 2018

Yeah, I know I should. Dipping wrasses just stresses me out, lol.

Will have to be tomorrow, wife's already fussed about "more fish in quarantine for months"

Will hold off on any meds tonight and dip and medicate tomorrow morning.

No flukes, I will start ramping copper.

Flukes present I'll start general cure, and ramp copper after that's done unless further symptoms develop.

HotRocks · May 5, 2018

I have to agree with big g. If you are seeing raised spots that aren't white. Very good possibility of flukes. Freshwater dip is a good idea.

It may be a combination of the two as well.

4FordFamily · May 6, 2018

Looks like ich to me, but always freshwater dip for flukes to rule it out. Very simple and helpful!

cmcoker · May 9, 2018

No flukes during dip Sunday. Using CopperSafe, level is at ~1.0ppm per API test.
When I got home today noticed ventral and tail fin are damaged, but I'm already dealing with a cloudy tank... think I probably need to start some antibiotics but not sure about that with the copper and haziness already.

Guess I could switch to TTM, but I'd rather continue copper to cover Velvet. and I dont have the supplies for 2 full qt anymore..

Also, I will not be home all day Saturday and part of Sunday due to having to travel to a funeral.

Appreciate any input!

cmcoker · May 11, 2018

Went ahead and started the trifecta of antibiotics yesterday since the fins looked worse.
Since I will be gone tomorrow until Sunday, did a 50% water change and dosed again today so the next doses of kanaplex and metroplex will be due when I return. Fingers crossed they do ok while I'm gone!

HotRocks · May 11, 2018

Wishing you luck! I am sure they will be fine! You can only do what you can do.

cmcoker · May 17, 2018

@Humblefish

So this fish had antibiotic (metro, kanaplex, furan2) started Thursday, on Friday 50% water change and 2nd doses since I was to be out of town Saturday through Sunday. Sunday another dose of all antibiotics, copper at 2ppm, noted new damage to dorsal fin all other seemed stable,
Monday Furan2, Tuesday 30% water change and all antibiotic, Wednesday Furan2. Maybe minor changes to during this time for the worse, but I thought he was relatively stable.

Today when I got home he is notably worse in appearance, still eating and out swimming though

My thought is do I move to a new, sterile quarantine and out of copper, perhaps do TTM to get him out of the copper, so he can recover. Also should I switch antibiotics? I would continue my doses tonight and get whatever is recommended tomorrow to start. Thinking from AAP website maybe maracyn 1 and 2? Or I could switch to enrofloxacin as I had done on the previous wrasse I had with a resistant bacterial infection..

Any thoughts appreciated! Help!

cmcoker · May 17, 2018

Same photo, pointing out new lesions that were not there yesterday, he really looks worse under all blue, but pictures are crap.

cmcoker · May 17, 2018

#reefsquad
Anyone have any ideas, stay the course or ??

Humblefish · May 18, 2018

@cmcoker I would transfer the fish out of copper and treat with ABX in a new/sterile QT. He's never going to make a recovery so long as an immunosuppressant like copper is also present in the water.

My treatment of choice would be NFG: http://store.nationalfishpharm.com/NFP-products-Nitrofuracin-Green-59584.Item.html

Backup plan would be Neoplex + Sulfaplex (or API Triple Sulfa).

cmcoker · May 18, 2018

@Humblefish Thanks for the input, I started making a batch of water last night anticipating transferring him out of copper today. I will see what I can find locally today, should be able to at least get the neomycin and triple sulfa.

Thanks again!

Figures I ordered a Hanna Copper checker at lunch yesterday ..

cmcoker · Jun 5, 2018

After 2 full weeks of antibiotics, Neoplex and sulfaplex, the fish is much improved, fins are grown back 95%, no tattering. Color hasnt returned to them yet.

I have stopped antibiotics and will allow him to continue to recover.

I have seen no signs of ich or any other parasites while treating with the antibiotics.

I found the neoplex and sulfaplex combo easier to do as they are not dosed as frequently.

Plan to continue observation at least another couple weeks. Will add a course of general cure since I only freshwater dipped one fish.

Since I am no longer seeing ich on either fish, should I restart copper at some point?
They got a week at 2.0ppm and based on dosing amount they should have been at 1.5ppm for 10 or so days.

I would only forgo the copper with daily observation over the next few weeks. That would be about 5 weeks out of copper, shouldnt anything lingering show by then?

HotRocks · Jun 5, 2018

cmcoker said:
After 2 full weeks of antibiotics, Neoplex and sulfaplex, the fish is much improved, fins are grown back 95%, no tattering. Color hasnt returned to them yet.

I have stopped antibiotics and will allow him to continue to recover.

I have seen no signs of ich or any other parasites while treating with the antibiotics.

I found the neoplex and sulfaplex combo easier to do as they are not dosed as frequently.

Plan to continue observation at least another couple weeks. Will add a course of general cure since I only freshwater dipped one fish.

Since I am no longer seeing ich on either fish, should I restart copper at some point?
They got a week at 2.0ppm and based on dosing amount they should have been at 1.5ppm for 10 or so days.

I would only forgo the copper with daily observation over the next few weeks. That would be about 5 weeks out of copper, shouldnt anything lingering show by then?

@cmcoker I am glad to hear your fish has improved! That's great.

The copper decision is yours to make. Wrasse are really difficult. I personally would treat him with copper. Wrasse are just so good at hiding an affliction due to the thick mucus coat.

HotRocks · Jun 5, 2018

HotRocks said:
@cmcoker I am glad to hear your fish has improved! That's great.

The copper decision is yours to make. Wrasse are really difficult. I personally would treat him with copper. Wrasse are just so good at hiding an affliction due to the thick mucus coat.

Another route you could go would be a black Molly test if you are concerned about treating with copper.

I personally have not tried this yet, but it's a pretty genius concept, and seems to be working well for others.

cmcoker · Jun 6, 2018

HotRocks said:
Another route you could go would be a black Molly test if you are concerned about treating with copper.

I personally have not tried this yet, but it's a pretty genius concept, and seems to be working well for others.

Oh, yeah! Yes that will be a good plan. I'll try a molly this weekend.