CBB black spots appeared during copper

[Lost in the Sauce]

Interesting (to me) development

Purchased a newly imported CBB that ate well at the LFS and in my QT. Showed signs of ick but normal respiration rate.
Initial body shots L & R

Started copper safe as usual, within 5 days, ick spots had all gone away. CBB was messing/rubbing with its gillplates hard so I stacked prazi on the copper.
There black spots appeared relatively quickly.
After 3 prazi doses and in the copper drawdown phase, spots are still present.

They appear to only be on fins. Zero places on the body.

Interested to see if anyone has run across this before.

 

[Goaway]

I never seen black spots form on fins. Only black spot disease I ever seen has been on shrimp.

I would like to know the cause of this in the cbb as well.

 

[Sean Clark]

Following. Best of luck.

 

[NowGlazeIT]

I never seen black spots form on fins. Only black spot disease I ever seen has been on shrimp.

I would like to know the cause of this in the cbb as well.

Some parasites go for the fins first to avoid the fish’s slime coat.

Interesting (to me) development

Purchased a newly imported CBB that ate well at the LFS and in my QT. Showed signs of ick but normal respiration rate.
Initial body shots L & R

Started copper safe as usual, within 5 days, ick spots had all gone away. CBB was messing/rubbing with its gillplates hard so I stacked prazi on the copper.
There black spots appeared relatively quickly.
After 3 prazi doses and in the copper drawdown phase, spots are still present.

They appear to only be on fins. Zero places on the body.

Interested to see if anyone has run across this before.

looks like black ich but I’m no expert

 

[Goaway]

Some parasites go for the fins first to avoid the fish’s slime coat.



looks like black ich but I’m no expert

Black ich if I recall, can be treated by prazi. Now I have to look that up.

Edit: yup. A few people do copper/peazi on black ich. I do hope this clears up.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Yeah, problem is there sensitivity to some medications. How is the fishs' breathing and is it eating?
Is it swimming normally or frantically ?
In general, copperband butterflies are tolerant of copper although I prefer coppersafe if copper is your only available source. They are also susceptible to uronema, bacterial infections and lymphocystis. My preferred treatment is chloroquine phosphate which generally used for malaria in humans will treat ich, brook, uronema and velvet disease.
In the video, really looks more like lympho which is associated with water quality and diet and with treatment can be the case

 

[NowGlazeIT]

Yeah, problem is there sensitivity to some medications. How is the fishs' breathing and is it eating?
Is it swimming normally or frantically ?
In general, copperband butterflies are tolerant of copper although I prefer coppersafe if copper is your only available source. They are also susceptible to uronema, bacterial infections and lymphocystis. My preferred treatment is chloroquine phosphate which generally used for malaria in humans will treat ich, brook, uronema and velvet disease.

Have you ever seen black lymphs before?
Is that a thing? Because the way these parasites are showing up looks like lymphs but these are black

 

[vetteguy53081]

Black ich if I recall, can be treated by prazi. Now I have to look that up.

Edit: yup. A few people do copper/peazi on black ich. I do hope this clears up.

Formalin r prazi will treat black ich. This is not turbellarian infestation

 

[vetteguy53081]

Have you ever seen black lymphs before?
Is that a thing? Because the way these parasites are showing up looks like lymphs but these are black

Likely to do with the copper content

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

Black ich if I recall, can be treated by prazi. Now I have to look that up.

Edit: yup. A few people do copper/peazi on black ich. I do hope this clears up.

Correct. Black ick should have been covered under the prazi treatments.

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

Yeah, problem is there sensitivity to some medications. How is the fishs' breathing and is it eating?
Is it swimming normally or frantically ?
In general, copperband butterflies are tolerant of copper although I prefer coppersafe if copper is your only available source. They are also susceptible to uronema, bacterial infections and lymphocystis. My preferred treatment is chloroquine phosphate which generally used for malaria in humans will treat ich, brook, uronema and velvet disease.
In the video, really looks more like lympho which is associated with water quality and diet and with treatment can be the case

Fish stopped eating as aggressively under prazi but is still sufficiently eating.

Copper safe is the only copper I use any longer.

My first thought was lympho , but black. I couldn't find any reference to this anywhere.

If associated to WC issues, Would it be a delayed response? I keep my qt's on lock. No other fish in the quarantine are showing anything like this. Only CBD.

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

Likely to do with the copper content

Can you expound?

Are you thinking the normal lympho white tufts may have turned black due to the copper?

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Interesting (to me) development

Purchased a newly imported CBB that ate well at the LFS and in my QT. Showed signs of ick but normal respiration rate.
Initial body shots L & R

Started copper safe as usual, within 5 days, ick spots had all gone away. CBB was messing/rubbing with its gillplates hard so I stacked prazi on the copper.
There black spots appeared relatively quickly.
After 3 prazi doses and in the copper drawdown phase, spots are still present.

They appear to only be on fins. Zero places on the body.

Interested to see if anyone has run across this before.

Those look gray, not really black. It is Lymphocystis, a relatively common viral disease in new fish, and very common in CBB. It is self-limiting and will resolve on its own in 6 to 8 weeks with no treatment as long as the growths don't begin to involve the fish's mouth.

"Black ich", a turbellarian, is seen on the fish's body, and are tiny, well defined black spots. Prazi is often suggested for this, but actually turbellarians aren't affected by prazi. I use FW dips and formalin to control turbellarians.


Jay

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

Those look gray, not really black. It is Lymphocystis, a relatively common viral disease in new fish, and very common in CBB. It is self-limiting and will resolve on its own in 6 to 8 weeks with no treatment as long as the growths don't begin to involve the fish's mouth.

"Black ich", a turbellarian, is seen on the fish's body, and are tiny, well defined black spots. Prazi is often suggested for this, but actually turbellarians aren't affected by prazi. I use FW dips and formalin to control turbellarians.


Jay

Thank you for the diagnosis.

Any idea why it's expression this Dark color vs the more commonly seen (to me) white?

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Thank you for the diagnosis.

Any idea why it's expression this Dark color vs the more commonly seen (to me) white?

I think it has to do with the layer of skin cells that the virus causes to enlarge - some Lymphocystis lesions are white, some are varying shades of gray, and I've seen red in some species of hamlet. Kind of like when cancer metastasizes and starts to invade other tissues.

Jay

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

I think it has to do with the layer of skin cells that the virus causes to enlarge - some Lymphocystis lesions are white, some are varying shades of gray, and I've seen red in some species of hamlet. Kind of like when cancer metastasizes and starts to invade other tissues.

Jay

Great info. Thank you.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Great info. Thank you.

sometimes, like tonight, when I have 30+ messages, I can jump to conclusions, or not see symptoms clearly (grin). So, I went back and looked at the video again - it does look like Lympho to me.....

Jay

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

sometimes, like tonight, when I have 30+ messages, I can jump to conclusions, or not see symptoms clearly (grin). So, I went back and looked at the video again - it does look like Lympho to me.....

Jay

Thanks buddy.

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

As Lympho isn't highly transferable with healthy fish, any reason the two clowns, and royal Gramma can't come out?

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

As Lympho isn't highly transferable with healthy fish, any reason the two clowns, and royal Gramma can't come out?

Well, royal gramma are the poster child for getting lympho - back in the 1970’s we’d see it in almost all of them.
That said, if there are no other symptoms, I won’t hold up releasing fish out of quarantine based on lympho alone.
Jay