Chaeto keeps dying... any help appreciated. I'm thinking it's my new setup.

[Ignitros]

I have a Fluval M90 AIO tank. It has 4 chambers in the back. When I first set it up I was able to keep chaeto no problems and it grew really well. Recently I cannot keep it alive no matter what I do. I thought that I'd share my setup and some of the changes to see if maybe they are the cause of the inability to keep chaeto alive. I have purchased a new skimmer, added an ATO and moved the Carbon filter to the outside of the tank rather than inside the 4th chamber. I have the same fuge light which is a chaetomax led by Innovative Marine so that hasn't changed.

I did purchase a much better display tank led to replace the ones that I had in the first pic.

The first pic is of the original setup. 1st chamber is a filter pad, 2nd is the refugium, 3rd is skimmer, 4th is the return pump and carbon filter reactor.

This second set of pics is of the tank setup as it's been since. 1st is the new skimmer, 2nd is the refugium, 3rd is filled with marine pure media, 4th is the return and the carbon filter. The new skimmer won't fit anywhere accept the first chamber or the last.

 

[Tft12]

When I have had chaeto cultures crash in the past it’s been because my nitrate or phosphate levels bottomed out. Do you know what your nitrate and phosphate levels are? Also I have better growth when I’m supplementing iron, potassium, and other trace elements, but especially the iron.

 

[Scrubber_steve]

I'd guess the marine pure is removing a lot of ammonia that the chaeto loves. Its chaetos most easily assimilated inorganic nitrogen.

 

[Ignitros]

I dose Triton method for supplements and that has iron in it as well as other beneficial elements for the growth of macro algaes. My nitrates used to be consistently below 5ppm and usually held steady at 2ppm. Now the nitrates spike up over 25ppm and rising while the chaeto slowly disintegrates. I never had to do water changes prior. Now I have to do weekly water changes of 20% or more just to keep nitrates in check. When I get more chaeto from friends and add it the same thing happens. The chaeto slowly dies and nitrates spike.

 

[Ignitros]

I'd guess the marine pure is removing a lot of ammonia that the chaeto loves. Its chaetos most easily assimilated inorganic nitrogen.

The marine pure has been in there since day 1. I just moved it from the first chamber to the 3rd when I moved the skimmer.

 

[Scrubber_steve]

Marine pure is very good at conversion of NH3/4 to NO2 to NO3, but no so good at denitrification so NO3 builds up.

Chaeto uses NH3/4 as a fertilizer for photosynthesis, & thus removes it from the water rather than converting it through nitrification.
Chaeto does remove residual NO3, but not as effectively & it a battle between the chaeto & marine pure. They shouldn't be used in the same system.

 

[Scrubber_steve]

The marine pure has been in there since day 1. I just moved it from the first chamber to the 3rd when I moved the skimmer.

But its bacteria population is now much stronger.

 

[Ignitros]

But its bacteria population is now much stronger.

So you're thinking that could be the issue?

 

[Scrubber_steve]

So you're thinking that could be the issue?

I set up an algae scrubber in a system with an established marine pure block. Despite running the scrubber hard NO3 would not fall below 10ppm. I removed the marine pure & after 3 days NO3 fell to zero.

 

[Ignitros]

I set up an algae scrubber in a system with an established marine pure block. Despite running the scrubber hard NO3 would not fall below 10ppm. I removed the marine pure & after 3 days NO3 fell to zero.

Well... I guess I can remove the marine pure or most of it and see if that helps.

 

[Scrubber_steve]

Well... I guess I can remove the marine pure or most of it and see if that helps.

I'm sure you'll notice a difference

 

[Ignitros]

I've been thinking about going back to the filter in the first chamber and swapping out the skimmer for a hang on external skimmer. Do you think that would be better or not matter? Triton does suggest that you have the skimmer after the refugium, I only changed it up because the skimmer wouldn't fit unless I turned it sideways and set it in the first chamber.

 

[Scrubber_steve]

I've been thinking about going back to the filter in the first chamber and swapping out the skimmer for a hang on external skimmer. Do you think that would be better or not matter?

It's hard to say, I can't see it in detail.
If the present skimmer is coping & doing its job I wouldn't bother.

 

[Ignitros]

It's hard to say, I can't see it in detail.
If the present skimmer is coping & doing its job I wouldn't bother.

It's a Tunze 9004 DC. Works great but I do have to clean it more often than the older skimmer. Mostly because it clogs more easily since it is in the first chamber.

 

[Scrubber_steve]

It's a Tunze 9004 DC. Works great but I do have to clean it more often than the older skimmer. Mostly because it clogs more easily since it is in the first chamber.

Then an upgrade is probably worth the outlay.

 

[Ignitros]

I'll start with the marine pure and see how it goes. I may just revert back to the old layout, bite the bullet and get an external skimmer.

I'm really wishing just slightly that I got a traditional tank with sump underneath. That would have given a little more room so I didn't have to make equipment decisions based solely on what fits.

 

[AlgaeBarn]

We have a lot of people running marine pure with chaeto with great success. Chaeto does like ammonia(nitrate it has to interconvert to ammonia within the cell), but nitrates work just fine for growth.

Can you post your triton test results? I am interested in your Fe, Mn, and your K levels. I am also interested in your pH, and dkH levels.

 

[Tft12]

Some pretty interesting stuff in this thread. I was expecting to just be the nitrate had bottomed out. Since everyone's system is so efficient at quickly converting ammonia, I sort of forget to consider it's existence. My repeated experience with undetectable nitrate readings followed by chaeto culture crash seems to go along with AlgaeBarn's comment. For a time I was dosing ammonium chloride because I had undetectable nitrate and my chaeto did indeed explode in growth as per ScrubberSteve's comments on ammonia and chaeto.

@Ignitros What's your phosphate level? I know it's much less likely to be the limiting factor but worth taking a quick look.

 

[Scrubber_steve]

Some pretty interesting stuff in this thread. I was expecting to just be the nitrate had bottomed out. Since everyone's system is so efficient at quickly converting ammonia, I sort of forget to consider it's existence. My repeated experience with undetectable nitrate readings followed by chaeto culture crash seems to go along with AlgaeBarn's comment. For a time I was dosing ammonium chloride because I had undetectable nitrate and my chaeto did indeed explode in growth as per ScrubberSteve's comments on ammonia and chaeto.

@Ignitros What's your phosphate level? I know it's much less likely to be the limiting factor but worth taking a quick look.

Interesting that algae can continue to grow in my scrubber even when NO3 is reading zero.

 

[Tft12]

Interesting that algae can continue to grow in my scrubber even when NO3 is reading zero.

My comment on the nitrate was something that was explained to me by an Ogo farmer. When I took his advice regarding nitrate my cultures of ogo and chaeto stopped crashing. Perhaps your scrubber is more efficient at nitrogen fixation than our macro cultures in a vat style things we're doing...or maybe when you were getting a hobby test kit reading of zero you had more nitrate than when I was getting a hobby test kit reading of zero...or maybe I'm completely wrong and nitrate had nothing to do with my chaeto and ogo crashes.