Chaeto vs Hair Algae

[ctopherl]

Is there some chemistry-based approach I should be taking to make sure the chaeto in my refugium thrives and hair algae doesn't suffocate it? Right now the hair algae is winning and I remove gobs of the stuff weekly by hand.

I'm sure many will say "add cleanup crew" but that feels more like addressing the symptom than the cause. Are there specific levels of anything chemistry-related that I should be monitoring/testing/dosing/maintaining to make sure the chaeto wins out?

Tank is ~1.5 years old mixed reef and doing great. The refugium has one of the cheaper kessil refugium-specific lights on it (H80 or something similar?). It is set at max intensity and in between the grow/bloom settings. The light runs 11 hours per day.

The only time I've noticed the hair algae suppressed and the chaeto thriving was when my nitrates and phosphates went sky high (~15ppm N and .2ppm P), but I assumed that high of P was not good for corals so I lowered it back down.

 

[MnFish1]

Is there some chemistry-based approach I should be taking to make sure the chaeto in my refugium thrives and hair algae doesn't suffocate it? Right now the hair algae is winning and I remove gobs of the stuff weekly by hand.

I'm sure many will say "add cleanup crew" but that feels more like addressing the symptom than the cause. Are there specific levels of anything chemistry-related that I should be monitoring/testing/dosing/maintaining to make sure the chaeto wins out?

Tank is ~1.5 years old mixed reef and doing great. The refugium has one of the cheaper kessil refugium-specific lights on it (H80 or something similar?). It is set at max intensity and in between the grow/bloom settings. The light runs 11 hours per day.

The only time I've noticed the hair algae suppressed and the chaeto thriving was when my nitrates and phosphates went sky high (~15ppm N and .2ppm P), but I assumed that high of P was not good for corals so I lowered it back down.

Its a little unclear - I'm assuming by the way you worded it - are you removing handfuls of hair algae from your refugium - or your tank? If you're removing it from your refugium - I would consider (depending on what is in your refugium) - cleaning it - removing all algae - and starting with a large piece of Chaeto. I do not believe that your water chemistry is causing the issue - more likely - is that the conditions in your refugium (Is there sand, etc) is more conducive to grow hair algae - than chaeto. IMHO - the best way to use chaeto is in a clean (i.e. nothing else) area of the sump.

Also - hair algae (assuming it doesn't get out of control in your tank) - will also remove nitrates just like Chaeto.

 

[ctopherl]

Its a little unclear - I'm assuming by the way you worded it - are you removing handfuls of hair algae from your refugium - or your tank? If you're removing it from your refugium - I would consider (depending on what is in your refugium) - cleaning it - removing all algae - and starting with a large piece of Chaeto. I do not believe that your water chemistry is causing the issue - more likely - is that the conditions in your refugium (Is there sand, etc) is more conducive to grow hair algae - than chaeto. IMHO - the best way to use chaeto is in a clean (i.e. nothing else) area of the sump.

Also - hair algae (assuming it doesn't get out of control in your tank) - will also remove nitrates just like Chaeto.

Yes this is all in the refugium, sorry that was unclear! My tank is pretty algae-free.

I have some rock rubble in the fuge but that’s it. I started with probably a softball sized chunk of chaeto for the second time now and it has been withering away slowly again.

While the hair algae does help with nutrient control like you mentioned, it is much more likely to break off and make a big mess of my sump, clogging pumps, lines and filters much more frequently so I’d like to avoid it!

 

[MichaelReefer]

Is there some chemistry-based approach I should be taking to make sure the chaeto in my refugium thrives and hair algae doesn't suffocate it? Right now the hair algae is winning and I remove gobs of the stuff weekly by hand.

I'm sure many will say "add cleanup crew" but that feels more like addressing the symptom than the cause. Are there specific levels of anything chemistry-related that I should be monitoring/testing/dosing/maintaining to make sure the chaeto wins out?

Tank is ~1.5 years old mixed reef and doing great. The refugium has one of the cheaper kessil refugium-specific lights on it (H80 or something similar?). It is set at max intensity and in between the grow/bloom settings. The light runs 11 hours per day.

The only time I've noticed the hair algae suppressed and the chaeto thriving was when my nitrates and phosphates went sky high (~15ppm N and .2ppm P), but I assumed that high of P was not good for corals so I lowered it back down.

I have been having similar problems and have somewhat given up on it. I have hair and chaeto in my refugium but a small amount seems to have escaped into the display. Not much, but I did get some on a few snails and on my Powerhead cables.

I generally try to scoop as much out as I can when I remove chaeto but it just comes back because I cant get it all. *shrug*

 

[BiggestE22]

Is there a lot of detritus in the fuge? Also if you add a much larger amount of Chaeto. It will likely outcompete the hair algae. I also think that we lump Chaeto in like it’s all the same. There are hundreds of variations of Chaeto. Some see likely better than others.

 

[MnFish1]

Yes this is all in the refugium, sorry that was unclear! My tank is pretty algae-free.

I have some rock rubble in the fuge but that’s it. I started with probably a softball sized chunk of chaeto for the second time now and it has been withering away slowly again.

While the hair algae does help with nutrient control like you mentioned, it is much more likely to break off and make a big mess of my sump, clogging pumps, lines and filters much more frequently so I’d like to avoid it!

O believe me I'm well aware . BTW - Chaeto also has the same problem. But - I think I might move your rubble rock to a different part of your sump (if possible) - after cleaning (if you want) - and purchase new chaeto. I'm assuming the hair algae is starting out growing on the rubble - and then extending into the chaeto

 

[mrlavalamp]

I use a reactor instead of a refugium. If the flow in my reactor is too low I grow way more hair algae than chaeto.

 

[Dan_P]

Is there some chemistry-based approach I should be taking to make sure the chaeto in my refugium thrives and hair algae doesn't suffocate it? Right now the hair algae is winning and I remove gobs of the stuff weekly by hand.

I'm sure many will say "add cleanup crew" but that feels more like addressing the symptom than the cause. Are there specific levels of anything chemistry-related that I should be monitoring/testing/dosing/maintaining to make sure the chaeto wins out?

Tank is ~1.5 years old mixed reef and doing great. The refugium has one of the cheaper kessil refugium-specific lights on it (H80 or something similar?). It is set at max intensity and in between the grow/bloom settings. The light runs 11 hours per day.

The only time I've noticed the hair algae suppressed and the chaeto thriving was when my nitrates and phosphates went sky high (~15ppm N and .2ppm P), but I assumed that high of P was not good for corals so I lowered it back down.

How is the coralline growth in your system?

 

[ctopherl]

O believe me I'm well aware . BTW - Chaeto also has the same problem. But - I think I might move your rubble rock to a different part of your sump (if possible) - after cleaning (if you want) - and purchase new chaeto. I'm assuming the hair algae is starting out growing on the rubble - and then extending into the chaeto

Actually most of the hair algae seems to be on the wall of the sump!

 

[ctopherl]

How is the coralline growth in your system?

Just OK... somewhere between "non-existent" and "mediocre", ha! I haven't put any effort into trying to spur it on though. I do maintain alk and Ca decently well-my corals are definitely noticeably unhappy if I do not (mostly my acans).

 

[Dan_P]

Just OK... somewhere between "non-existent" and "mediocre", ha! I haven't put any effort into trying to spur it on though. I do maintain alk and Ca decently well-my corals are definitely noticeably unhappy if I do not (mostly my acans).

Two reasons for the question. There is a notion that coralline covered surfaces prevent GHA growing. Sounds good, don’t know how rock solid that notion is. Second, I accidentally discovered that my system was depleted of trace elements. When I dosed my system with a daily dose of Chaeto Gro just once a week, coralline growth went wild. In fact a bunch of other stuff I never saw went wild. Just something to consider.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

More than 2 decades ago, I had the same problem and an old timer expert recommended dosing iron. It worked.

The hair algae clogging the chaeto declined and the chaeto thrived.

Not sure if it will help you, but it is cheap and easy to try.

 

[Dan_P]

More than 2 decades ago, I had the same problem and an old timer expert recommended dosing iron. It worked.

The hair algae clogging the chaeto declined and the chaeto thrived.

Not sure if it will help you, but it is cheap and easy to try.

Do you remember observing any other organisms starting to flourish upon iron addition?

 

[MnFish1]

Actually most of the hair algae seems to be on the wall of the sump!

Just keep scraping it off

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Do you remember observing any other organisms starting to flourish upon iron addition?

I do not recall any other observations, but I was also not tracking growth rates of things.

 

[jda]

You can check out the 5 gallon buckets of chaeto that I pull out of my tank every few weeks in my build thread, but there are things that you can do... and some that you cannot.

First, hair can only really attach to clean and sterile surfaces. This is why real live rock tanks only have patches of hair instead of being completely covered. Hair will not grow on top of live coralline, either, but some dead coralline is still purple and hard to tell for most.

Second, you do need consumers. Even though I keep my N and P near NSW levels of about .1 and 1-3 ppb, I will still get algae like crazy without my snails and urchins. Remember that the algae can use ammonia/ammonium too. Getting consumers is treating the root cause since that is what happens in nature. Chemicals are treating the symptoms, IMO.

Third, chaeto needs to be pruned, thinned out and iron, as suggested above, to thrive. Otherwise, it can stop growing and get brittle. I change water regularly and that seems to be enough to get iron into the system, but I also use some Ferrion (forgot who makes it) if I slack off on water changes. The chaeto will grow faster when pruned in half, or so, and then pulled apart to make it thinner. You cannot just let it grow too dense or it will slow down. Iron might make other kinds of macros grow better too, but you have to live with this, which is why you have consumers.

Fourth, I have found nothing that really likes to eat hair algae as a first resort. I get pinchushion urchins from the Florida Keys that will eat it, but only if you keep on putting them on the rocks. Otherwise, they wander and eat the easier film algae. Keys variety pincushions are the most hardy, and also the cheapest - double awesome.

Fifth, ceriths and nerites are wonderful algae eaters, but they don't really do much with hair. How does this help? Even if they eat film and some hair, they make the larger consumers have to go to the hair to eat if there is no more "easy" algae left. They also are great ways to get coralline into your tank. Good emerald crabs are good algae eaters too - not all of those for sale are the good one, so where you buy them matters.

Sixth, you will need to get in there. Remove as much hair as you can when you can. It sucks, but you can get more out than the urchins and stuff can eat. Once it gets low enough, the urchins will eat it down to bare rock and then some coralline can start to grow there. This could take a long time, but if you started with dry/dead rock, this is the price that needs to be paid.

I get all of my cleanup crew from reeftopia.com. Super hardy stuff at good prices. They also sell the best variety of peppermint shrimp for eating aiptasia and emerald crabs for eating bubble algae - the same shrimp from other parts of the Atlantic are not as good.

 

[Dan_P]

You can check out the 5 gallon buckets of chaeto that I pull out of my tank every few weeks in my build thread, but there are things that you can do... and some that you cannot.

First, hair can only really attach to clean and sterile surfaces. This is why real live rock tanks only have patches of hair instead of being completely covered. Hair will not grow on top of live coralline, either, but some dead coralline is still purple and hard to tell for most.

Second, you do need consumers. Even though I keep my N and P near NSW levels of about .1 and 1-3 ppb, I will still get algae like crazy without my snails and urchins. Remember that the algae can use ammonia/ammonium too. Getting consumers is treating the root cause since that is what happens in nature. Chemicals are treating the symptoms, IMO.

Third, chaeto needs to be pruned, thinned out and iron, as suggested above, to thrive. Otherwise, it can stop growing and get brittle. I change water regularly and that seems to be enough to get iron into the system, but I also use some Ferrion (forgot who makes it) if I slack off on water changes. The chaeto will grow faster when pruned in half, or so, and then pulled apart to make it thinner. You cannot just let it grow too dense or it will slow down. Iron might make other kinds of macros grow better too, but you have to live with this, which is why you have consumers.

Fourth, I have found nothing that really likes to eat hair algae as a first resort. I get pinchushion urchins from the Florida Keys that will eat it, but only if you keep on putting them on the rocks. Otherwise, they wander and eat the easier film algae. Keys variety pincushions are the most hardy, and also the cheapest - double awesome.

Fifth, ceriths and nerites are wonderful algae eaters, but they don't really do much with hair. How does this help? Even if they eat film and some hair, they make the larger consumers have to go to the hair to eat if there is no more "easy" algae left. They also are great ways to get coralline into your tank. Good emerald crabs are good algae eaters too - not all of those for sale are the good one, so where you buy them matters.

Sixth, you will need to get in there. Remove as much hair as you can when you can. It sucks, but you can get more out than the urchins and stuff can eat. Once it gets low enough, the urchins will eat it down to bare rock and then some coralline can start to grow there. This could take a long time, but if you started with dry/dead rock, this is the price that needs to be paid.

I get all of my cleanup crew from reeftopia.com. Super hardy stuff at good prices. They also sell the best variety of peppermint shrimp for eating aiptasia and emerald crabs for eating bubble algae - the same shrimp from other parts of the Atlantic are not as good.

Nice reply.

Your narrative about Chaeto care rings true. It tracks closely to one that I would tell for Ulva care. I tried dosing chelated iron to perk up my moribund Ulva but it did not seem to work. I dosed 1/7 the recommended amount of Chaeto Gro and the Ulva now doubles in size every week. I harvest 1/2 gallon from a gallon of Ulva.

Side story. After dosing Chaeto Gro, coralline growth in my system exploded and is growing over everything. I had a red filamentous micro algae on the rocks that is being overgrown by coralline

I found Mexican turbos eat GHA and every other kind algae I feed them. If the algae has cyanobacteria on it, they shy away. I discovered if I don’t rinse my Ulva in tap water to reduce the tiny amount of cyanobacteria on the leaves, the snails are reluctant to eat it.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Nice reply.

Your narrative about Chaeto care rings true. It tracks closely to one that I would tell for Ulva care. I tried dosing chelated iron to perk up my moribund Ulva but it did not seem to work. I dosed 1/7 the recommended amount of Chaeto Gro and the Ulva now doubles in size every week. I harvest 1/2 gallon from a gallon of Ulva.

Side story. After dosing Chaeto Gro, coralline growth in my system exploded and is growing over everything. I had a red filamentous micro algae on the rocks that is being overgrown by coralline

I was a little surprised when I calculated a while back that only a few grams of new macroalgae growth can totally deplete a 100 gallon aquarium of manganese. That might be part of the chaetogro effect.

 

[Dan_P]

I was a little surprised when I calculated a while back that only a few grams of new macroalgae growth can totally deplete a 100 gallon aquarium of manganese. That might be part of the chaetogro effect.

Aha, that is interesting. I had a bunch of Ulva growing quite robustly for some weeks when it turned to limp spinach. When cyanobacteria started to grow on it I didn’t need any more signs that my algae was distressed.

The reason for the question whether anything else perked up with iron dosing to your system was all sorts of things started growing after Chaeto Gro dosing, things I never saw before (I haven’t added anything to the aquarium for about a year so it wasn’t an inoculation). Sponge-like things are growing, pineapple sponges, little fan worms, and coralline is covering all the rocks. Even the film on the glass has changed. And the Xenia colony that happily sat on its plug for year quite suddenly decided to spread, which I assume is its natural tendency. I guess the system was depleted in something.

 

[jda]

Mexican Turbos are great, but they die once they eat all of the algae, at least for me. I got to where I like urchins better because they can find other things to eat like coralline, nori or whatever - they seem to live a lot longer. Ceriths and Nerites can also find enough film to eat when the hair is gone, but they are not huge eaters to begin with. I also found that Mexican Turbos would eat the "easy" algae first, but they would eat the hair later on - they also were tough and could live in a tank where I had a golden puffer that would chew up glass heaters, rocks and anything else, but the Turbos would live.

I have been terrified of macro going sexual on me, so I only do chaeto now, so I lack any good knowledge on other macros except for ulva and bryopsis which show up one day and I got luck enough to have a Magnificent Foxface that at them all and then the urchins eradicated all of the roots, I guess. The stuff thrived with no additional anything, but it was short lived for a few months.

Maybe I forgot to mention above that most of the snails and especially an urchin will start to slow down if residual N and P levels get too high and will flat out die if they get much higher. It is one of the many cruel jokes of nature, but inverts and even good macro need residual N and P at reasonable levels and they do better when they are lower.