Chalice and Monti Issue - any ideas?

[Cire]

Hi Everyone. I have a Orange Plating Monit that just went quite pale about a week ago. Now I am noticing skin loss at the edges, not in the middle towards the base. There are some areas that appear to be regaining color as well. It's a mixed bag.

This morning I also noticed that a chalice frag I've had for a couple of months has what I would consider "white spikes" all over it. I'm assuming this is the skeleton and the skin is receding. I have attached a picture.

I started this tank about 15 months ago. Never had an issue with the corals. Water parameters have always been stable. Nitrate 0, Phosphates .002, ALK - 8.2, CA 430, MG 1340, PH 8.1-8.3, salinity 1.026.

Had the Monti for a year under these stable conditions before I any issues. It was growing very fast. I surmised that a slight change in lighting intensity from 50% to 60% for a few days caused this. I scaled the lighting back in hopes of recovery. I did look up Monti-eating nudi's. I determined that's not the issue because these pests apparently eat the flesh from the middle out, and not from the tips in.

The chalice issue really has me scratching my head. It's in relatively dim light, has been covering it's plug nicely and exhibiting awesome color. Then this morning, it's got these white tips. I did notice an encrusting tube worm at the bottom of the frag. The chalice had started growing over it. Not sure if this was a chemical defense by the worm that might have caused this reaction? Not even sure that a worm can exhibit this behavior.

Anyway, thank you for sticking with the stream of consciousness. Any thoughts are appreciated.

 

[MaiReef]

I would go with higher Nitrate and Phosphate. Corals bleach without enough nutrients

 

[Cire]

Thanks Maireef.

 

[Ranjib]

I cant think of anything obvious, other than recommending going more defensive. i.e. dont do any sudden changes, low light is a good thing. nitrate 0 can be bad, but its ok if you are spot feeding, in my opinion. If the white spikes are fairly distributed its likely due to environmental factors (light/chemistry), if its localized than it can be due to pest (can check at night .. sometime you see stuff crawling doing bad things), i would not worry about worms too much, at least the normal feather dusters are pretty benign. I have seen some snails eat coral flesh , only if the corals are not very healthy (seen this in action with some of my lost acans).

 

[Cire]

Maireef - question for you. Since all the corals have exhibited good color and growth up to most very recently, how would nutrients play into the downturn? Is it simply that the nutrient level of the tank was sufficient until the corals reached a certain size? Perhaps they were at stasis in terms of input (nutrients) and output (growth)? Just trying to understand how the system could be good and bad with the same parameters?

 

[Cire]

Thanks Ranjib. That's some interesting stuff. The spikes are distributed and it makes a lot of sense to assume environmental/chemical rather than pest related. That makes a lot of sense. My nitrate has been 0 for as long as the tank's been cycled over a year ago. Why would this have not been an issue from day one, and rather manifest itself 15 months down the road?

 

[Cire]

I cant think of anything obvious, other than recommending going more defensive. i.e. dont do any sudden changes, low light is a good thing. nitrate 0 can be bad, but its ok if you are spot feeding, in my opinion. If the white spikes are fairly distributed its likely due to environmental factors (light/chemistry), if its localized than it can be due to pest (can check at night .. sometime you see stuff crawling doing bad things), i would not worry about worms too much, at least the normal feather dusters are pretty benign. I have seen some snails eat coral flesh , only if the corals are not very healthy (seen this in action with some of my lost acans).

Thanks Ranjib. That's some interesting stuff. The spikes are distributed and it makes a lot of sense to assume environmental/chemical rather than pest related. That makes a lot of sense. My nitrate has been 0 for as long as the tank's been cycled over a year ago. Why would this have not been an issue from day one, and rather manifest itself 15 months down the road?

 

[Cire]

I would go with higher Nitrate and Phosphate. Corals bleach without enough nutrients

Maireef - question for you. Since all the corals have exhibited good color and growth up to most very recently, how would nutrients play into the downturn? Is it simply that the nutrient level of the tank was sufficient until the corals reached a certain size? Perhaps they were at stasis in terms of input (nutrients) and output (growth)? Just trying to understand how the system could be good and bad with the same parameters?

 

[Ranjib]

Thanks Ranjib. That's some interesting stuff. The spikes are distributed and it makes a lot of sense to assume environmental/chemical rather than pest related. That makes a lot of sense. My nitrate has been 0 for as long as the tank's been cycled over a year ago. Why would this have not been an issue from day one, and rather manifest itself 15 months down the road?

Thats is something to think about. Did you made any recent changes (trace element changes or some bad chemicals leaching etc.)? It is also possible to have cascading effect. I am comfortable with blaming it on high light, and then spend some time (two weeks to a month) with low light and then decide next course of action. Remember it is possible to see the effect of something bad with some delay as well, so its possible the light caused damage became visible few days later ..

 

[Cire]

Thats is something to think about. Did you made any recent changes (trace element changes or some bad chemicals leaching etc.)? It is also possible to have cascading effect. I am comfortable with blaming it on high light, and then spend some time (two weeks to a month) with low light and then decide next course of action. Remember it is possible to see the effect of something bad with some delay as well, so its possible the light caused damage became visible few days later ..

I was considering changes I'd made, if any. I looked into my notes and realized that back in September I increased the amount of GFO I was using from 30g to 90g. I made this change to get my phosphate lower as I had noticed a darker brown algae on the rocks that was tough to get rid of. My P03 generally hovered around .04-.06 (which I realize is already considered low nutrients) however my reasoning was that I should attempt to go lower. While I've tested numerous times since this change and my readings have hovered here and there, I've gotten a couple spot readings during that time period that were absolute 0. That hadn't happened until the GFO change. Therefore I think you are right and I am seeing a latent, residual effect from this stripping. My remedy was to shut off my GFP reactor for the day (I will decrease my GFO amount by 1/3 and go to 60 g when I turn it back on). I will shut off the skimmer for the day. I will feed more than typical for the day. My hope is that over 24 hours I can get nutrients to spike a tad. Then turn my skimmer and reactor (with less GFO) back on and monitor from there. Does that sound like a decent plan to you, or is this exactly the type of reaction you would discourage because of the potential to throw things even more out of balance? Thank you.

 

[Mal11224]

I have the same light and try to raise intensity by 2-3% at a time. This light is strong. It's so difficult to tell if it's too much visually. I have a huge birds nest that gives me an idea if my intensity is too high. Increase of 10% is a lot in my opinion at one time. I think more nutrients might be needed. The corals should bounce back but might need some supplements to assist. With low nutrients like yours, Alk is usually more acceptable at the lower end of the spectrum. Somewhere in between 7 - 8 Dkh.

 

[MaiReef]

Maireef - question for you. Since all the corals have exhibited good color and growth up to most very recently, how would nutrients play into the downturn? Is it simply that the nutrient level of the tank was sufficient until the corals reached a certain size? Perhaps they were at stasis in terms of input (nutrients) and output (growth)? Just trying to understand how the system could be good and bad with the same parameters?

I would think as your tank grows you would need more nutrients. I am not saying a drastic change, but a bump may compensate for more light and growth. This is merely based upon what I have seen. If you get more fish, you feed more. I would follow the same with coral.

 

[Ranjib]

I was considering changes I'd made, if any. I looked into my notes and realized that back in September I increased the amount of GFO I was using from 30g to 90g. I made this change to get my phosphate lower as I had noticed a darker brown algae on the rocks that was tough to get rid of. My P03 generally hovered around .04-.06 (which I realize is already considered low nutrients) however my reasoning was that I should attempt to go lower. While I've tested numerous times since this change and my readings have hovered here and there, I've gotten a couple spot readings during that time period that were absolute 0. That hadn't happened until the GFO change. Therefore I think you are right and I am seeing a latent, residual effect from this stripping. My remedy was to shut off my GFP reactor for the day (I will decrease my GFO amount by 1/3 and go to 60 g when I turn it back on). I will shut off the skimmer for the day. I will feed more than typical for the day. My hope is that over 24 hours I can get nutrients to spike a tad. Then turn my skimmer and reactor (with less GFO) back on and monitor from there. Does that sound like a decent plan to you, or is this exactly the type of reaction you would discourage because of the potential to throw things even more out of balance? Thank you.

yeah.. I'll just propose to refine it a bit more and go slower. This is not a catastrophic risk for the coral, you can respond slowly. Go for 60g GFO (i.e, remove only 30g GFO at a time, for one week, first), don't stop skimmer, and increase feeding. Stability is key, you don't want to swing or oscillate between two very different states... its is more damaging than low ph in immediate future.

 

[Ranjib]

Also, I have learned very hard way, is that I can only diagnose things correctly if I make one changes at a time. Else it becomes a combinatorial problem :-(

 

[Crreef]

Have you checked your calcium levels recently?