Chalice Crash Thread

[ZoWhat]

Hello, I'm brandnew to R2R. I've been reefing since 2006 and last week I had a major setback with my chalice collection. Just looking for opinions on what might have happened to 4 of my chalices. 10 small frags are still left and in QT. I'll be posting what I have done this past week. So here we go....

Here are two of my chalices that had two years of growth and then died the week of Feb 17th.

75gal tank has been up and running for 2-3 years.

Tank is in the basement about 20ft from my furnace (i will be testing carbonmonoxide with my brother-in-laws monitor today - he's a pro HVAC tech).

Both chalice shown have been in the tank for around 2 years.

Tank is a frag tank to grow out chalices and acans with eggcrate bottom and very little LR.

Tank has a 250w 20k Hamilton DE Metal Halide blub 33 inches from the bottom of the tank (all chalices on bottom 33ins away from light).

Hamilton MH bulb about 3mos old. Light cycle on MH is 6hrs a day.

Actinics consist of two ReefBrite 54w LED strip (all actinic LED bulbs). Run all actinic 1hr before MH and 3hrs after MH.

Tank has two 100w thermostatic heaters. I monitor temp with a glass thermometerand its pretty constant at 75-76 degrees.

I do a 7-10 gal waterchange every week. I use a calibrated refractometer and keep the SG at 1.025'ish +/- .001

I have a Reef Octopus skimmer that produces a full cup of waste 1-2 times a week.

I have a Reef Octopus Dual Chamber Calcium Reactor controlled by a PinPoint pH probe. First chamber is filled with CaribSea ARM media. Second chamber is filled with 80% Brightwell CoralLazurus (calc media) and 20% Brightwell NeoMag (magnesium media).

Current testing as of 2/22/14:
Ammonia - somewhere between 0 and .25 ppm (most likely due to dying chalices losing skin in the watercolumn)
Nitrates - somewhere between 5 - 10 ppm (possibly the after effect of spotfeeding three times a week. up'ed my skimmer to a wet skim)
Phosphates - not tested (dont own a test)
pH - 7.9 using the calibrated PinPoint controller
Calcium - 490
Alk (bicarbonates) - 8 dKH
Mag - in the 1400s

I use a RO/DI system - TDS reading around 0.5 using the calibrated com100 TDS meter

Testing of effluent calc-reactor drip solution (2/22/14):
Calcium - 680
Alk - 18.6
Not sure if my drip solution going int the tank is just right or too high (?)

Past testing of Calc / Alk / Mag / Notes
10.15.13 / 400 / 9.3 / 700 - starting dosing Seachem Advantage Magnesium with topoff water after this test
10.30.13 / 390 / nt / 1320
11.26.13 / 430 / 8.3 / 1710 - stopped dosing SeaChem in topoff water
12.01.13 / 410 / 8.3 / 1600
12.07.13 / 410 / 10.2 / 1590 - add new ARM media to first chamber to calc-reactor
12.15.13 / 440 / 13.1 / 1590
01.01.14 / 460 / 16 / 1500 - with being very concerned with high Alk turned calc-reactor OFF
01.15.14 / 390 / 7.7 / 1410
01.21.14 / 400 / 8.6 / 1440
01.28.14 / 390 / 8 / 1440 - turned reactor back on and slowed down final driprate to 1 drop per 1.5 seconds
02.04.14 / 490 / 6.7 / 1440
02.10.14 / 490 / 7 / 1440
02.16.14 / 490 / 7 / 1410
02.22.14 / 490 / 8 / 1440

As of 2/22/14 the Calc Reactor has been turned OFF until I figure out what in the heck is going on with these chalices.

Only other variable is I increased my spotfeeding of the chalices from once a week to three times a week. Feeding BRS Reef Chili and Fuana Marin LPS made into a mush/paste and spotfed directly on chalice surface using a syringe (no needle on syringe). Fed at night.

I have STOPPED all spotfeeding as of this past Weds 2/19/14 when deadspot began to show up. Started spotfeeding in early January 2014.

 

[ZoWhat]

Consensus of two of my local reef clubs say that my ALK spike in early January probably weakened and/or burned the skin on the chalice but didnt show up for another 4 weeks. Not sure what made my CalcReactor release a lot of bicarbonates. The effluent driprate was 1 drop per second. I have since turned off the reactor.

Another theory is since my tank is in the basement and we have had a super cold winter, carbon monoxide has made it into my tank.

Another theory is since i up'ed my spotfeeding to 3 times a week, the chalice developed a bacterial infection over hard to digest food and/or trying to digest too much food; mysis, reef chili or fauna marin lps.

 

[ZoWhat]

On Monday Feb 24th I setup a 30gal tall Hospital Tank for all the remaining chalices. The 4 chalices that were pretty bad were beyond saving and had to pitch them in the trash.

QT tank consists of 50% new saltwater and 50% mature water from a reefer friend who has had a 210g running for 8 years. QT has one 100w thermostatic heater set at 75 degrees. One Koralia 850 PH. A power filter with two bags of carbon in mesh bags in the reservior of the power filter.

 

[ZoWhat]

Prior to putting the chalices in the QT tank, my reefer friend with 10+ yrs of experience and very knowledge of veterinarian meds had me do a 1hr bath in a 5gal bucket of newsaltwater in Maracyn SW and Milbemycin Oxime at 25% dosage. This was to rule out any bacterial infection. Used an airstone during the 1hr bath.

 

[ZoWhat]

On Tuesday Feb 25th placed all chalices after their med bath in the QT tank. Pics as of Tuesday night:

 

[ZoWhat]

 

[ZoWhat]

Test results as of 5pm Weds 2/26/14:

Main tank (with no chalices in there, they are in QT):
Calc - 520
Alk - 7.3 dKH
Mag - 1500
NO3 - 2.5

Test of mature water I used to go into QT tank:
Calc - 350
Alk - 7.7 dKH
Mag - 1140
NO3 - 4ish

 

[ZoWhat]

As of Thursday 2/27/14.... used my PinPoint pH probe used to turn the calcreactor on and off and calibrated it.

All day Thursday the main tank (without any chalices in there) was pretty stable at 7.91 to 7.94.

But keep in mind that's with the CalcReator turned off days prior to reading ph.....

 

[ZoWhat]

As of Thursday 2/27/14, all chalices looking exactly the way they did in the pictures posted above. The Papa Smurf's tiny deadspot actually looked a tiny bit better, possibly healing. but hard to say.

Need everyone tracking this thread to see if my remaining chalices make it or not, please send a lot of positive energy my way in Milford, Ohio as I'm hoping and praying these chalices rebound.

 

[purplereef]

I would say give them a lot more shade. You might be burning them up running your LEDs for that long over them. Your calcium is way to high as well. I would give the two that are really suffering a lot of shade and do a big water change and let us know what happens after that.

 

[bct15]

Chalices don't do well in my system either, I have one frag that has been doing good for about 6-8 months but prior to that one they would all do good for about 3-4 months then start to recede over the next few months. I think mine was due to low nutrients and higher than sea water alk. Since then I have lowered my alk to 7.8-8.1 and allow a little nutrients and all if my corals do better. I have always been able to keep all other LPS, just chalices have been a pain. I think they are more sensitive to elevated parameters than some people think.

I'd cut back on the feeding, I rarely feed any of my lps anymore. They extend their feeders during my evening fish feed, and must be catching a little food to elicit that response. I only spot feed them like once a month and still get good growth. The one chalice that I have been successful with so far I actually have never spot fed. I also have it in a shaded area with decent flow. I also removed my coral beauty angle, which might have been the problem. I know it tore up blastos.

I wish you the best of luck and will be following this.

 

[ZoWhat]

its Day-3 for my QT tank. do you think I should pull the carbon mesh bags in the powerfilter reservoir and thoroughly rinse the mesh bags with RODI? or just leave the mesh bags alone?

 

[ZoWhat]

Update!

Notice the black thread-like substance coming out of my miami hurricane in below pics?

what in the world in that?
are they pooping?
is that color normal?
is that a sign of something?

ideas?

 

[jt17]

I hope, mostly for your family sake, that its's not CO poisoning. I have many chalices but am no expert. My guess is the alk spike. That was a big spike you had and it usually takes a few weeks to see the results of damage done. You might want to frag some of those that are experiencing RTN cause once it starts it's hard to tell where or if it will stop. If the chalices did well for you in the past then they will do well for you again in the future with stable parameters. They can tolerate many extremes if they get there gradually but your alk spike was fairly quick and may have been too much too quick. Time and stability are your chalices best friend right now.

 

[ZoWhat]

All chalices looking about the same as the pics above as of Sunday morning 3/2/14.

Did another water test on the QT tank:

Calcium 500
Alk 7.7 dKH
Mag 1500
NO3 2ppm

I took the carbon mesh bag out of the powerfilter and rinsed

 

[ethridge78]

What ever happened to the chalices did they pull threw hopefully.

 

[FLipp]

i think i would of cried! im glad everything seems to be doing better.

 

[Just_me_Dupree]

Im having similar issues with a lot of my chalices and have successfully kept them for years and years...I was told it was a chalice "flash"

 

[H2O]

The chalices get bugs as well couple years ago I bought a pack from a vendor on here the chalices had weird bugs with 2 white dots on its back that live under the chalice and were smaller then small copods they stole their food when I fed them and would not come out when they were getting dipped in coral ex then they slowly took a dump also some chalices r different familys and if they touch each other one will bleach some heave long tenticle that reach 2 inches and also will kill the guy next to him if they touch it also had some friends that made a switch to led and lost 80% of the chalice collection in a week others changed color bleached washed out then when buying frags u can get bacteria dinoflakes etc and that can take the tank down hill fast