Chalice Troubles

Emc · Jan 6, 2009

I think I've got this one narrowed down to PO4, lighting issues or problems with my water changes but I thought I'd throw it out there and see if anyone else has a suggestion.

I've had this chalice in my tank for about a year without problems. I've seen a lot of growth over the past couple months but it has also started to bleach. I have two other chalices in the tank that have done something similar but in a much faster manner.

Emc · Jan 6, 2009

My parameters are below -

January 5, 2009
Ca 450
Mg 1410
Alk 9.6
Ph 8.3
Salinity .027
PO4 .1

This chalice, along with the two others, was located at the bottom of the tank under a red spectrum T5. The total lighting is 2 x 150 mh and 4 x 39 watt T5 over a 58 gallon tank.

JuniorMC8704 · Jan 6, 2009

the red spectrum T5 is likely you problem...

everyone i know whos run that Pro-color bulb liked it initially, and then noticed that it had many issues.

I would dump the bulb and replace it with a figi-purple.

Emc · Jan 6, 2009

JuniorMC8704 said:
the red spectrum T5 is likely you problem...

everyone i know whos run that Pro-color bulb liked it initially, and then noticed that it had many issues.

I would dump the bulb and replace it with a figi-purple.

Thanks. I hope your right. That would be an easy fix. I'm going to run some PO4 media also and cut down on my feeding schedule also.

Ultimateaquariums · Jan 6, 2009

Your Magnesium is pretty high too. Has it always been at that level?

nino78 · Jan 6, 2009

I was thinking the same thing.

JuniorMC8704 · Jan 6, 2009

really? you think the mag is too high?

optimal is what, 1350?

I know ive had mine that high many times...A lot of people have been keeping it much higher than that, as acans seem to respond very well to the higher levels...

dieselab · Jan 6, 2009

Just be glad its bleaching and not receding or peeling off. The mag seems high, but I know a few people that ran it higher to control some algae without any problems. Try running some rowaphos in a reactor. You can also try a water change or just monitor it closely and give it some time.

mrgreenthumb · Jan 6, 2009

What about temperature?? Lets not forget the obvious

Emc · Jan 6, 2009

Ultimateaquariums said:
Your Magnesium is pretty high too. Has it always been at that level?

I'd have to go back and check my logs. I know I had difficulty maintaining it above 900 before I added the Ca reactor and changed salt a few months ago. Since I've added the reactor and changed salt I think it has stayed above 1400 but I'd have to go back and look at my written log to be positive. I changed from IO to a local brand of salt.

The new salt values are listed as 1350 for mg but I have not tested it.

Emc · Jan 6, 2009

mrgreenthumb said:
What about temperature?? Lets not forget the obvious

78.9 to 80.9 at the end of the day. I'm looking into a controller to run fans to eliminate that fluctuation.

Emc · Jan 6, 2009

neyugn0w01 said:
Just be glad its bleaching and not receding or peeling off. The mag seems high, but I know a few people that ran it higher to control some algae without any problems. Try running some rowaphos in a reactor. You can also try a water change or just monitor it closely and give it some time.

I am glad. This has been a slow process that I have been monitoring. I do large water changes and frankly I'm afraid that is part of the problem. The salt I'm using is made by a local retailer. A lot of people love it and have been using it for some time. I need to run some tests on it myself. I'm also going to reduce my water changes to 5 gallons per week until I get this under control.

MikeB · Jan 6, 2009

Emc said:
78.9 to 80.9 at the end of the day. I'm looking into a controller to run fans to eliminate that fluctuation.

+- 2 degrees fluctuation is fine IMO

AussieExoticCorals · Jan 6, 2009

Hummm...have you tried dipping it, it could be bacterial infection.

Mr.Firemouth · Jan 6, 2009

LPS corals prefer to have some level of Nitrate and Phosphates in their water. They will color up more in nutrient limited systems, but this does not mean that they are healthier.
Most colors we enjoy are formed by non-photosynthetic proteins.(see Dana Riddle's research) The greens, browns, purples and such are from the symbiotic algae.

I see no problem with your water parameters. However, you may be lacking certain trace elements in the local salt mix. I would recommend trying Seachem or someone else and see if it helps.

I would also recommend dosing some Aminos for right now to help with any nutrient deficiencies.

The first thing I thought of when I saw the bleaching is UV burn. It is common on certain HQI systems when the glass cover isn't installed right. You will get a spot appearing that is bleaching out. It is possible that the troubled red lamp is emitting the wrong UV spectrum and causing the event. Definitely play it safe and rotate the lamp out.

Expect the coral to take 60 days to recover after you have the changes.

My other suspicion would of been temperature. However it would take a spike to 86*F to elicit the bleaching. You have ruled that out.

To directly dose this coral with vitamin/aminos you can place it a container in the dark with 2ml of any commercial product like Selcon, etc. Leave it there for 30min and return it to the tank.

Let us know what steps you take and how the coral fares.
Rich

iani · Jan 6, 2009

Mag seems fine to me. Its a bit high but you can raise it to 1500 and not experience any problems if its done slowly. Ideal for phosphates is .03 so your phosphates are high. The only accurate way to test that is which a hanna phosphate colorimeter. I use procolor bulbs in my t5 setup and have no problems with them and chalices. I've never had a single problem with the red/yellow spectrum bulbs.

Emc · Jan 6, 2009

Thank you all for the great ideas and advice.

Emc · Jan 6, 2009

Steps taken so far...

Ordered the fiji purple bulb and moved the chalice under a different spectrum bulb.

Bathed the chalice in a selcon dip.

Added phosban to my media reactor.

Debated purchasing a colorimeter and a controller.

Mallard · Jan 6, 2009

My vote goes for the bulb spectrum. According to "Advanced Aquarist's", there is a direct positive correlation between the the growth rate of corals and the amount of red light present. The more red light in a system the worse corals do. Interesting read.

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2008/12/aafeature1

Acro76 · Jan 7, 2009

So what changes have you made in the last 3 to 6 months? You mention good growth, then a bleaching problem. Lighting changes? Carbon additions? How are the other chalices doing? You also mentioned problems maintaining magnesium above 900 before you added a calcium reactor. This also causes stress and tissue recession with LPS and chalice corals.

Dana highlights some very limited studies that are interesting, however I would not make any judgement calls based on the information in it.

If you are using the information in the article you are comparing the amount of red light intensity from a 150wt. 10K bulb with a peaks around 425, and 550 to a t5 bulb with a peak at 660 (ATI procolor)? Does this give off more or less red light? Does anyone even know if the ATI gives off more red light than the KZ Fiji Purple? One might assume it does given how it looks, but the blue light the KZ throws out could mask it.

Your phosphate level at .10 is in my opinion a far greater problem. The inhibition of calcification by phosphate has been the subject of scientific studies and many reports by fellow reef aquarists. Check out these articles:

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-09/rhf/index.php

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rhf/index.php

Good luck that is a nice looking chalice!