challenging fish to breed

[NotFishyFishGuy]

hey everyone, just wondering what are some species of fish that are challenging to breed but at the same time not impossible? im looking for a fish that if i were to captive breed, would actually make a difference, not fish like clowns that clearly need any more people to breed them. i'm starting up another saltwater and i wanna turn it into like a frag/ breeding tank almost. thanks!

 

[James M]

bangaii cardinals would be a good and easy fish to breed.
Here’s an article on breeding them:

Breeding the Banggai Cardinalfish in your Home Aquarium

Redacted

www.reef2reef.com

 

[NotFishyFishGuy]

bangaii cardinals would be a good and easy fish to breed.
Here’s an article on breeding them:

Breeding the Banggai Cardinalfish in your Home Aquarium

Redacted

www.reef2reef.com

are the cardinals worth breeding in terms of like money wise or would they help the hobby much? i feel like i see captive bred ones a lot lol

 

[James M]

are the cardinals worth breeding in terms of like money wise or would they help the hobby much? i feel like i see captive bred ones a lot lol

I don’t see why they wouldn’t be helpful...I suggested a fish that could be bred in a frag tank. Other wise you would need to setup multiple breeding tanks for fish that can’t be bred in a frag tank

 

[ichthyogeek]

I think that "challenging" is situational here. Do you have experience working with fish breeding? If so, with what species? Clownfish are generally the "easiest" to breed of fish that have larval pelagic stages (banggai cardinalfish just spit out their babies post-larval stage), hence why lots of people breed them. You also might not need to set up multiple breeding tanks. It just depends on what you have.

I don't know what your tank specs are, but most "lowboys" aren't hospitable to pelagic spawners, due to the pelagic spawners' necessity to rise in the water column. Dragonets can spawn in 18" high tanks from what I've read. Seahorses need 24". I've heard of dwarf angels spawning at 21". Other pelagic spawners include tangs and wrasses.

This means that you're probably limited to demersal/substrate spawners. Dottybacks, blennies, gobies, dartfish, damsels, etc. Not many "species-firsts" left amongst the cheaper fish, but still a few. This is the list of captive bred fish species for 2019: https://www.reef2rainforest.com/201...ptive-bred-marine-fish-species-list-for-2019/

Also, regarding cardinalfish: multiple industry experts have stated that Banggai Cardinalfish should be captive raised, due to a very small range (yes, including the Lembeh Strait), in conjunction with BC IridoVirus (BCIV), which can ravage captive populations. You could go with one female and two males and rotate the males out. I know that some captive bred ones are coming out of thailand, but it's still hard to get them in parts of the US.

So in conclusion: what are your tank's dimensions? Are you already planning on culturing rotifers/copepods and/or phytoplankton/microalgae for your frags?

 

[NotFishyFishGuy]

I think that "challenging" is situational here. Do you have experience working with fish breeding? If so, with what species? Clownfish are generally the "easiest" to breed of fish that have larval pelagic stages (banggai cardinalfish just spit out their babies post-larval stage), hence why lots of people breed them. You also might not need to set up multiple breeding tanks. It just depends on what you have.

I don't know what your tank specs are, but most "lowboys" aren't hospitable to pelagic spawners, due to the pelagic spawners' necessity to rise in the water column. Dragonets can spawn in 18" high tanks from what I've read. Seahorses need 24". I've heard of dwarf angels spawning at 21". Other pelagic spawners include tangs and wrasses.

This means that you're probably limited to demersal/substrate spawners. Dottybacks, blennies, gobies, dartfish, damsels, etc. Not many "species-firsts" left amongst the cheaper fish, but still a few. This is the list of captive bred fish species for 2019: https://www.reef2rainforest.com/201...ptive-bred-marine-fish-species-list-for-2019/

Also, regarding cardinalfish: multiple industry experts have stated that Banggai Cardinalfish should be captive raised, due to a very small range (yes, including the Lembeh Strait), in conjunction with BC IridoVirus (BCIV), which can ravage captive populations. You could go with one female and two males and rotate the males out. I know that some captive bred ones are coming out of thailand, but it's still hard to get them in parts of the US.

So in conclusion: what are your tank's dimensions? Are you already planning on culturing rotifers/copepods and/or phytoplankton/microalgae for your frags?

i've bred freshwater fish before including things like bettas. still not completely sure on the specs, but definitely not going to be keeping anything like seahorses. they're cool and everything, but i don't wanna have them get stung by any corals or anemones if i get them.

maybe i'll try breeding banggai cardinals. don't really have much experience with them though. for culturing stuff like copepods, how hard is it? I'll start researching that now though.

 

[Paul B]

Mandarins are very easy to breed. Although, I have never raised them, they spawn constantly.

 

[NotFishyFishGuy]

Mandarins are very easy to breed. Although, I have never raised them, they spawn constantly.

i'll look into that thanks

 

[ichthyogeek]

Figured I'd make it slightly easier on you for mandarins: https://www.reef2rainforest.com/2008/03/04/breeding-the-green-mandarin/ .

Since you have experience with freshwater fish, I'd say that banggai cardinalfish are similar to mouthbrooding cichlids. The fry will take live baby brine after exiting the male's mouth, but you have to remove the male (and make sure he recovers! He doesn't eat for a while). You could culture rotifers and phyto, but I don't think it's strictly necessary. Rotifers are some of the more forgiving zooplankton to culture unlike pods.

Pod culture is tricky.The "hot stuff" right now is Parvocalanus acutirostris since it's so tiny, and fish larvae really like the eggs/nauplii. Euterpina acutifrons is another candidate for rearing, as are many of the calanoid copepods that Algagen puts out. Apocyclops panamensis and Tisbe biminiensis are also popular albeit harpacticoids. With the exception of the harpacticoids, each pod species eats microalgae aka phytoplankton.

Phytoplankton tends to be less tricky than pod culture. You use Guillard's Formula at half dilution (F/2) in certain amounts added to sterile seawater. Each species gets its own culture containers (2 or more, usually around 4 or so). Typically, one cultures Nannochloropsis and Isochrysis since they balance out DHA and EPA, both of which are necessary for larval fish growth. There are other species as well, which I've taken an interest to and will detail here. Pavlova (not the dessert) tends to have the right ratios of both, but is difficult to culture from what I hear. Rhodomonas is high in ARA, and can be used to culture filter feeding invertebrates like starfish and sea urchins. Tetraselmis seems to have an antibacterial property to it, in that it's been shown to beat down Vibrio bacteria populations.

 

[ichthyogeek]

There's also something to be said about decision fatigue, so here's the TL;DR :

A lot of demersal spawning fish will take rotifers gut loaded with phytoplankton as a first food. Not all, but a lot. If working with fish that won't accept artemia nauplii as a first food, try rotifers. The bare minimum would be live rotifers plus nannochloropsis plus isochrysis galbana 'tahiti', as well as artemia cultures once the fish are large enough. Both nannochloropsis and Isochrysis can be purchased in an "instant algae" format to reduce workload, but will rot in the larval rearing tank. Pods, while recommended, are optional unless working with fish that won't take rotifers.

 

[Peace River]

You may find the annual marine breeding issue of Coral interesting (it usually comes out in the fall). FWIW, there are approximately 30 different species of clownfish (not including designer patterns) that range from common to yet-to-be-bred so you may (or may not) want to dismiss all clownfish too quickly. If you haven't bred any fish yet, then you may want to start with some there are easier to breed will you learn some of the basics. Additionally, breeding fish to make a difference versus breeding fish for profit may lead to different choices.

 

[dotty]

other than banggais and cardinals are there any other cardinalfish that are easy to breed. I am thinking of cardinals in the Ostorhinchus genus such as the striped and yellow

 

[Paul B]

Bluestripe pilefish spawn all the time but I would imagine the miniscule fry would be a challenge to raise.

Here he is pregnant as he usually is


These clown gobies are also prolific spawners but Inever raised them. Her eggs are above her


These guys are spawning in my tank now



Watchmn gobi with her eggs, another fish that is easy to breed


Seahorses are of course easy. Here my female was depositing her eggs in the males pouch. But those are easy to raise.


Ruby Red dragonettes spawn easily and would be worth some money to raise



All fish that are not egg scatters will spawn in a tank.

 

[NotFishyFishGuy]

Bluestripe pilefish spawn all the time but I would imagine the miniscule fry would be a challenge to raise.

Here he is pregnant as he usually is


These clown gobies are also prolific spawners but Inever raised them. Her eggs are above her


These guys are spawning in my tank now



Watchmn gobi with her eggs, another fish that is easy to breed


Seahorses are of course easy. Here my female was depositing her eggs in the males pouch. But those are easy to raise.


Ruby Red dragonettes spawn easily and would be worth some money to raise



All fish that are not egg scatters will spawn in a tank.

great ill look into that thanks

 

[robbyg]

Since you say your up for a challenge and also want to make a difference I would go with the Mandarin fish. I have had pairs that spawned multiple times but I have never tried to raise the young.
This would be a huge benefit to the hobby as Mandarins are always in demand and captive bred ones that will eat frozen food or pellets would be enormously popular. I had a pair that ate pellets and I would pay double the normal cost to get a pair that did that straight out of the bag. It took me months to get mine to eat pellets and that is one of the reasons I have avoided buying anymore of them.

 

[ThRoewer]

... FWIW, there are approximately 30 different species of clownfish (not including designer patterns) that range from common to yet-to-be-bred so you may (or may not) want to dismiss all clownfish too quickly. ...

It's probably closer to 70... Not everything called clarkii is actually a clarkii -there are likely up to 16 distinct species lumped in under that name. Then there are at least 2, possibly even 4 species of maroons. The "black ocellaris" are likely a distinct species as well. And the genetic differences between the various percula and ocellaris strains are greater than those of the different skunk species, indicating a number of cryptic species.
More on all that here: https://amphiprionology.wordpress.com/

 

[NotFishyFishGuy]

Since you say your up for a challenge and also want to make a difference I would go with the Mandarin fish. I have had pairs that spawned multiple times but I have never tried to raise the young.
This would be a huge benefit to the hobby as Mandarins are always in demand and captive bred ones that will eat frozen food or pellets would be enormously popular. I had a pair that ate pellets and I would pay double the normal cost to get a pair that did that straight out of the bag. It took me months to get mine to eat pellets and that is one of the reasons I have avoided buying anymore of them.

sorry for the late reply. I will look into getting a tank for them. never kept them though. thanks!