Changing from blue to white

[N2theUnknown]

Hey guys as the title states I'm wanting to change from blue to white light. I was never a fan of the heavy blue tint but when I finally was able to get a high end piece of equipment I opted for the radion g5 pro. And the preset settings made it simple. I think I'm on the lps setting will have to check for sure when I get home. Now what I'm looking for is a more european style lit tank. (I believe from what I'm seeing is how they run most of their tanks). I have a H-22" x W-22" x D-22" cube might light sits above the water by about 12". Is there an easy way possibley a calculator that would give the equivalent par just by changing channels? Does changing channels even change par as long as it's proportional?

Does anyone run a dominant white light tank with the radion. If so please share a pic.

I'm still willing to run heavy blue just before lights out but looking for the majority of they day

 

[oreo54]

Well first start w/ what you are measuring.
"PAR" (really ppfd) is the sum of all photons in the visible spectrum generally from 400-700nm.

"PUR" is photosynthetically usable radiation.and is weighed by what one would call the "action" spectrum.

Lighting the Reef Aquarium – Spectrum or Intensity?

This month Dana and Miguel discuss the importance of spectrum and intensity of aquarium lighting.

reefs.com

Soooo generally blue "PAR" is close to blue "PUR"
Green PAR is not close to green PUR for chlorophyll using "plants".

If all diodes had the same photon efficiency and were driven w/ the same current PAR is directly proportional.
PUR is not in most cases.. Shifting from blue to red is a err example of an "exception" generally speaking.

Bottom line is going from blue centric to white centric you could have the same PAR but lower utilization of that par.
There is no easy way around this.

Fortunately the errors are relatively low and corals adapt.
If you measurd PAR under your old light spectrum vs new and they were the same you may have like 10% less "PUR"
Only a guesstimate but the percent on say 200 vs 180 par is mostly irrelevant.

Effects of light of altered spectral composition on coral zooxanthellae associations and on zooxanthellae in vitro - Marine Biology

Pocillopora damicornis (Linnaeus) and Montipora verrucosa (Lamarck) were collected from Hawaiian reefs. In two experiments (September 1979-January 1980: ca. 4 mo; August-October 1980; ca. 2 mo), these reef corals were grown under sunlight passed through filters producing light fields of similar...

link.springer.com

One final note.. since white diodes are blue emitters w/ phosphors withing the same err brand and series effeciency of whites will never match blue due to phosphor "losses".

And sincewhites are blue plus phosphor pur losses aren't as bad as one would suspect like by using a pure yellow diode.

And white centric tanks will always look brighter than an equal blue tank yet in all likelyhood have less "PUR".
In other words can't judge by eyeball


Yes.. it is messy on the minute details level.

 

[Nano sapiens]

Lighting guru Sanjay Joshi (white light and Radions):

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/dr-sanjay-joshi-light-schedule.393417/

 

[N2theUnknown]

Well first start w/ what you are measuring.
"PAR" (really ppfd) is the sum of all photons in the visible spectrum generally from 400-700nm.

"PUR" is photosynthetically usable radiation.and is weighed by what one would call the "action" spectrum.

Lighting the Reef Aquarium – Spectrum or Intensity?

This month Dana and Miguel discuss the importance of spectrum and intensity of aquarium lighting.

reefs.com

Soooo generally blue "PAR" is close to blue "PUR"
Green PAR is not close to green PUR for chlorophyll using "plants".

If all diodes had the same photon efficiency and were driven w/ the same current PAR is directly proportional.
PUR is not in most cases.. Shifting from blue to red is a err example of an "exception" generally speaking.

Bottom line is going from blue centric to white centric you could have the same PAR but lower utilization of that par.
There is no easy way around this.

Fortunately the errors are relatively low and corals adapt.
If you measurd PAR under your old light spectrum vs new and they were the same you may have like 10% less "PUR"
Only a guesstimate but the percent on say 200 vs 180 par is mostly irrelevant.

Effects of light of altered spectral composition on coral zooxanthellae associations and on zooxanthellae in vitro - Marine Biology

Pocillopora damicornis (Linnaeus) and Montipora verrucosa (Lamarck) were collected from Hawaiian reefs. In two experiments (September 1979-January 1980: ca. 4 mo; August-October 1980; ca. 2 mo), these reef corals were grown under sunlight passed through filters producing light fields of similar...

link.springer.com

One final note.. since white diodes are blue emitters w/ phosphors withing the same err brand and series effeciency of whites will never match blue due to phosphor "losses".

And sincewhites are blue plus phosphor pur losses aren't as bad as one would suspect like by using a pure yellow diode.

And white centric tanks will always look brighter than an equal blue tank yet in all likelyhood have less "PUR".
In other words can't judge by eyeball


Yes.. it is messy on the minute details level.

Thanks for the info this is exactly what I was worried about I know when I first set the light up I was sitting at about 350 par at the top and 250-180 mid to bottem. Would you think one drastic change or slowly change. Is it strictly par/pur or does wavelength play just as big if not a bigge
r part. Most of my corals are lps torch's hammers acans encrusting montis.

 

[oreo54]

Never do anything fast

 

[N2theUnknown]

Never do anything fast

I meant as long as par matched

 

[N2theUnknown]

Does anyone have any recommendations for channel settings? That they are using and really like

 

[oreo54]

I meant as long as par matched

Even par matching you are changing the light energy distribution field (PUR and spectrum). I'd still do it slowly.
10% "Shift" per week.

Not my forte here though, just based on "general theory"..

 

[N2theUnknown]

Even par matching you are changing the light energy distribution field (PUR and spectrum). I'd still do it slowly.
10% "Shift" per week.

Not my forte here though, just based on "general theory"..

Thanks that's what my main question was I guess in all my babbling lol. Was if par was end all be all or if spectrums also mattered. I know they matter but if that shift would. So now I just need to find a schedule I like. What would your thoughts be change all my channels alittle at a time or change one channel at a time? What are your thoughts on that.

 

[oreo54]

Thanks that's what my main question was I guess in all my babbling lol. Was if par was end all be all or if spectrums also mattered. I know they matter but if that shift would. So now I just need to find a schedule I like. What would your thoughts be change all my channels alittle at a time or change one channel at a time? What are your thoughts on that.

That's way to specific and hard to guess at.
First what is the overall intensity slider and what % of each channel currently?

And do you have a PAR meter?

You have drive currents to deal with.. Is one blue driven at the same output as one white? Ect.

Lets just see how complicated.. Say you have all diodes at 100% but 50% overall efficiency.
Reason for this set up is you need room in order to not top out.
You have 50% of each channel for adjustment.
So using a xr15 as an example and for the moment ignoring all violets.
Drop violets down for the moment but not off. Accounts for "only" about 12% of the output.
To whiten the tank and get close to the same Par (and the whites or blues are NOT significantly different in output of photons per diode) and lets use diode counts = output.

So at 50% you have 6 cw 8 rb 4 blue ect..

To whiten it you would go 12 cw, and decrease blues by an equal count.. 6

so say 6 less royal blue/blue. So from the 8/4 you now do 4/2

Run accent colors at 100% (R/G)

Now should be sig. whiter..approaching a 20,000k look.
Further dulling of the rb/blue channel will drastically shift color temp.
Of course you need to compensate somewhere for it or decrease par.

Now if these changes increase or decrease par too much as shown by a meter either mess w/ violets or increase/decrease intensity slider.

Suggest writing down current settings, remove light from tank and project it on a white surface to judge "tone"..
Or briefly messing w/ it..


Go to 14:00 but I "assume" you actually want it whiter..thus the above is sort of the reverse.
Well while writing this hypothesis out I found this:
You can multiply the numbers by both the slider setting and overall intensity to est "par" and any changes.

Radion G5 Pro vs Blue - Everything you need to know

Hello Reefers, I made a video about the two different versions of Radion G5, Pro & Blue. I bought both of them because I didn't know which one to buy so I decide to make this video to guide you in your decision: I will be honest the difference is very slim, to a point I asked my self the...

www.reef2reef.com

Lets say and just using 2 channels as an example.
you run 50% white, 100% rb at a 50% overall intensity.

White PAR 41 x .5 x .5 = 10.25
RB 54 x 1 x .5 = 27
total par 37.5

To match it is a white version (reverse specs)
cw 41 x 1 x .5 = 20.5
rb 54 x .5 x .5 = 13.5
total par 24
too low for par matching.

So lets go 75 overall
same stats.
w 41 x 1 x .75 = 30.75
rb 54 x .5 x .75 = 20.25
total par 51
too high.
Yeesh gets messy doesn't it.
Make it whiter..
Cut rb to 25% 10.1
plus white 30.75
40.85 close to the orig . target of 37.5
almost

Cut the white a tad..3.35 PAR
Can't change overall 75% just cut the channel
Decrease white channel from 100 to 90
41 x .9 x .75 = 27.67
Blue still @ 25 %
54 x .25 .75 = 10.12

Total 37. 79 target 37.5....
There "just right"..
BTW a few par one way or another isn't going to make a difference..
Somewhere in this tweaking you may find a color you like.
Really start w/ just RB/b and cw channels to make life simpler.
Tone w/ the violets red and green.




now you can kill an evening..

 

[Nano sapiens]

I have a DIY 'complete' spectrum array and have recently increased the white emitter intensity. Typically, PUR drops if you match the before/after PAR measurements when increasing whites (more so with warm whites, less so with cool whites), but I don't have a problem with a bit of a drop since LEDs tend to deliver high PUR by nature anyway.

My recommendation would be not to overthink this, just go slow (I use no more than 5% intensity change/week) and observe your corals frequently to see how they are reacting.

 

[N2theUnknown]

That's way to specific and hard to guess at.
First what is the overall intensity slider and what % of each channel currently?

And do you have a PAR meter?

You have drive currents to deal with.. Is one blue driven at the same output as one white? Ect.

Lets just see how complicated.. Say you have all diodes at 100% but 50% overall efficiency.
Reason for this set up is you need room in order to not top out.
You have 50% of each channel for adjustment.
So using a xr15 as an example and for the moment ignoring all violets.
Drop violets down for the moment but not off. Accounts for "only" about 12% of the output.
To whiten the tank and get close to the same Par (and the whites or blues are NOT significantly different in output of photons per diode) and lets use diode counts = output.

So at 50% you have 6 cw 8 rb 4 blue ect..

To whiten it you would go 12 cw, and decrease blues by an equal count.. 6

so say 6 less royal blue/blue. So from the 8/4 you now do 4/2

Run accent colors at 100% (R/G)

Now should be sig. whiter..approaching a 20,000k look.
Further dulling of the rb/blue channel will drastically shift color temp.
Of course you need to compensate somewhere for it or decrease par.

Now if these changes increase or decrease par too much as shown by a meter either mess w/ violets or increase/decrease intensity slider.

Suggest writing down current settings, remove light from tank and project it on a white surface to judge "tone"..
Or briefly messing w/ it..


Go to 14:00 but I "assume" you actually want it whiter..thus the above is sort of the reverse.
Well while writing this hypothesis out I found this:
You can multiply the numbers by both the slider setting and overall intensity to est "par" and any changes.

Radion G5 Pro vs Blue - Everything you need to know

Hello Reefers, I made a video about the two different versions of Radion G5, Pro & Blue. I bought both of them because I didn't know which one to buy so I decide to make this video to guide you in your decision: I will be honest the difference is very slim, to a point I asked my self the...

www.reef2reef.com

Lets say and just using 2 channels as an example.
you run 50% white, 100% rb at a 50% overall intensity.

White PAR 41 x .5 x .5 = 10.25
RB 54 x 1 x .5 = 27
total par 37.5

To match it is a white version (reverse specs)
cw 41 x 1 x .5 = 20.5
rb 54 x .5 x .5 = 13.5
total par 24
too low for par matching.

So lets go 75 overall
same stats.
w 41 x 1 x .75 = 30.75
rb 54 x .5 x .75 = 20.25
total par 51
too high.
Yeesh gets messy doesn't it.
Make it whiter..
Cut rb to 25% 10.1
plus white 30.75
40.85 close to the orig . target of 37.5
almost

Cut the white a tad..3.35 PAR
Can't change overall 75% just cut the channel
Decrease white channel from 100 to 90
41 x .9 x .75 = 27.67
Blue still @ 25 %
54 x .25 .75 = 10.12

Total 37. 79 target 37.5....
There "just right"..
BTW a few par one way or another isn't going to make a difference..
Somewhere in this tweaking you may find a color you like.
Really start w/ just RB/b and cw channels to make life simpler.
Tone w/ the violets red and green.




now you can kill an evening..

Ok I was hoping I could get away without using a par meter haha but I'll just see about renting one I don't have a problem "wasting an evening" if it on something that I want but thought it there was a formula of some sort then I would go that route seems it's not as simple. I appreciate your in depth explanation! I guess I'll just have to play with it.

 

[oreo54]

Ok I was hoping I could get away without using a par meter haha but I'll just see about renting one I don't have a problem "wasting an evening" if it on something that I want but thought it there was a formula of some sort then I would go that route seems it's not as simple. I appreciate your in depth explanation! I guess I'll just have to play with it.

Actually w/ this chart you wouldn't need a par meter but the meter is def more accurate. The chart can calculate changes but not actual.
232 relative par on full.
Subtract 30 par w) cool whites at 25%
Ect. Ect.
Just need to calculate what you are set at now.

 

[N2theUnknown]

Actually w/ this chart you wouldn't need a par meter but the meter is def more accurate. The chart can calculate changes but not actual.
232 relative par on full.
Subtract 30 par w) cool whites at 25%
Ect. Ect.
Just need to calculate what you are set at now.

Gotta love math!