Check values stammering. Sump overflow. UGENT!!

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

This is what I drew. If I end up doing this, I won’t be able to use the overflow lid that fits perfectly right now.

Then I’ll have algae growing in the overflow. Right now it’s covered in tucnicates and sponges. I don’t want to have algae growing in there.

Maybe I’m being a bone head, but I don’t understand why I can’t just replace the check valves on a regular basis and not have to deal with replumbing. The check valves didn’t stagger/vibrate before. I really have no issues changing them out frequently.

The goal is to have the siphon break as close as possible to the water level when the tank is running. This way, as soon as the water level starts to drop, air is sucked in and prevents the return plumbing from pulling a lot of water back into the sump.

Is it possible to lower the water level in the overflow so that the top of the elbow is slightly out of the water? If you can do this, then drilling the siphon break hole just below the water surface will work without you having to change the length of the vertical piping. You don't want to put the hole on the very top of the elbow (12 o'clock) or you'll risk getting some water coming out and splashing when the tank is running normally, but putting it at 3 or 9 o'clock or lower will work.

My original suggestion of drilling a hole on the underside was based on the assumption that part of your return plumbing was ready out of the water...

Another suggestion is to experiment when you replace the valves. If you can replace the one on the return and leave the old one on the UV, you can see if the sump can hold the water from the UV plumbing if that pump stops.

If it doesn't, then a siphon break won't prevent a leak, but could lessen the amount of water drained from your tank. If the sump doesn't overflow with just the UV line valve still "broken", then adding a siphon break just under the water level should give you peace of mind.

*Tell me if this doesn't make sense...

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

The reason you might not want to rely solely on the check valves is simply extra insurance. You're right- the new ones will likely work fine for a while. But there's still going to be the possibility of something going wrong and causing a flood.

 

[Brett7397]

Try bending your loc line up just below the surface of the water. If it's to short add some or come out of your overflow 90 up to the surface and 90 again then attach the loc line at the surface. Drill your hole just below the surface of the water. You will loose some flow but you might have some more room to adjust your pump output. You can use grey pvc or paint them black. There's videos on fish safe paint.

 

[a.t.t.r]

The goal is to have the siphon break as close as possible to the water level when the tank is running. This way, as soon as the water level starts to drop, air is sucked in and prevents the return plumbing from pulling a lot of water back into the sump.

Is it possible to lower the water level in the overflow so that the top of the elbow is slightly out of the water? If you can do this, then drilling the siphon break hole just below the water surface will work without you having to change the length of the vertical piping. You don't want to put the hole on the very top of the elbow (12 o'clock) or you'll risk getting some water coming out and splashing when the tank is running normally, but putting it at 3 or 9 o'clock or lower will work.

My original suggestion of drilling a hole on the underside was based on the assumption that part of your return plumbing was ready out of the water...

Another suggestion is to experiment when you replace the valves. If you can replace the one on the return and leave the old one on the UV, you can see if the sump can hold the water from the UV plumbing if that pump stops.

If it doesn't, then a siphon break won't prevent a leak, but could lessen the amount of water drained from your tank. If the sump doesn't overflow with just the UV line valve still "broken", then adding a siphon break just under the water level should give you peace of mind.

*Tell me if this doesn't make sense...

Lowering water in overflow won’t impact the siphon break since the actual water in tank is still higher.



As far as replacing often the check valves. They might not have been vibrating but I also bet you they were still slowly leaking and a long power outage would have still overflowed. Check valve don’t work in living environments with 100 percent closure.

 

[a.t.t.r]

Try bending your loc line up just below the surface of the water. If it's to short add some or come out of your overflow 90 up to the surface and 90 again then attach the loc line at the surface. Drill your hole just below the surface of the water. You will loose some flow but you might have some more room to adjust your pump output. You can use grey pvc or paint them black. There's videos on fish safe paint.

This will help but loc line is not water tight and can still allow a trickle of water.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

Lowering water in overflow won’t impact the siphon break since the actual water in tank is still higher.

In my system at least, my overflow box rapidly drains down to the full siphon once the pump is off. Why would his operate differently...?

 

[Reefering1]

@Miami Reef ,
I feel like I've seen people drill the returns on the top and attach 1/4" tubing, to the hole, looping it around (pointing down) at the surface of water (with return pump running, so its slightly above overflow weir height).
Even if you change valves regularly or just redo return piping to use the wye check valve, you will figure something out- THIS IS NOT YOUR TIME OR REASON TO EXIT THE HOBBY. You are poised to be among the next generation of true contributors that we all need. And you just got those 6500k t5s on there.. Your tank is too beautiful to shut down for the possibility of mechanical failure. Better to have loved and lost than to never have loved at all, right? I'm sure there relevance here can be extrapolated, you're a pretty smart cookie

 

[Nate Chalk]

This is why I don't think we should design around a check valve.

A. They are expensive for what they are
B. They fail
C. Drill your return higher and use loc-line to direct the flow.

My tank I put a check valve on return but it literally didn't work from day one and thankfully I designed the tank this way...

It's nice to slow the rush of water when maintaining the tank. But other than that meh.

Make ur sump oversized and calculate ur back flow

 

[piranhaman00]

Lots of good fixes mentioned.

I’ve followed your build, it seems this company you had set this tank up has now failed on at least two occasions. It’s pretty much a golden rule to never use check valves and also ensure the entire system can drain into the sump. I would personally leave them reviews so others don’t have plumbing and stand issues with these guys.

Very solvable situation, good luck!

 

[Garf]

Hi guys,

I apologize for the small hiatus.

I struggle with my mental health, and this problem has left me on edge. It came to a point where I wasn’t sure if I would be able to continue this anymore.

My sump is obviously too small for the tank size. I can’t go back and change that. I don’t have space for a larger sump even if I wanted to.

I went to my LFS and bought 2 more check valves, but the threading didn’t fit. I ordered the correct size from Bulk Reef Supply. I have no problems changing the check valves once a year. I can even change them twice a year if it means I can continue the hobby.

The return lines that @a.t.t.r kindly drew were NOT glued, but I struggled trying to fit a |—| shape. I couldn’t find a way to make something that would fit the spot.

Even if I did manage to make something, would my sump even be able to hold the water?

I appreciate all the responses. I don’t think I’m quite out of the clear. If the stammering problem still persists after the new check valves come, I think giving away the fish and corals would be very high in my mind. My heart cannot take this heaviness much longer. I’m just delaying the inevitable.

You could try turning your flow down on the return pump and ditch some water out of the sump. As long as your temperature doesn’t fluctuate too much, you’ll be good. Probably depends if you get a visible low waterline on the display, but then there’s always black tape.

 

[Miami Reef]

@a.t.t.r

Can’t I just pull the loc line out of the water?

The drawing on the right is what you are proposing. Is there a difference if I just add loc line and replicate the drawing on the left?

It would be MUCH easier to do the idea on the left side. I just came up with this now.

I would add a hole to the underside of the loop in my drawing

Would this not work? I apologize if you already answered this question. I wasn’t aware if you did.

 

[Idech]

I appreciate all the responses. I don’t think I’m quite out of the clear. If the stammering problem still persists after the new check valves come, I think giving away the fish and corals would be very high in my mind. My heart cannot take this heaviness much longer. I’m just delaying the inevitable.

It would be a shame to quit the hobby after all the effort and care you’ve put into it.

Just an idea. Can you find professionals near your area (not the ones who built your tank) and make sure to check their credentials and ask for a service call ?

I mean it would cost you time and material and I’m sure they would find a way to give you peace of mind.

In any case, don’t quit.

 

[Miami Reef]

I did one side. I used PVC glue for the elbows on the bottom.

 

[KStatefan]

You could get that lower using street elbows

 

[Miami Reef]

I’m going back to the old system I had. This one is not good. I still hear water flowing and gurgling when I close the return pumps. I lifted the loc like completely out of the water and I still heard water passing through the PVC.

Since I’m touching the overflow system, I’m risking breaking the seal which was just by using teflon and pressed in. If the seal breaks then the entire overflow will go into the sump which will for sure flood.


I will just replace the check valves. My sump CANNOT hold the extra water.

I will rely on check valves. I will not make anymore changes.

 

[TokenReefer]

What's that 29 gallon tank doing ? Seems to me like it's using valuable cabinet space

 

[Miami Reef]

What's that 29 gallon tank doing ? Seems to me like it's using valuable cabinet space

That’s my ATO.

 

[DCR]

I did one side. I used PVC glue for the elbows on the bottom.

That should work but you have to drill a small hole (about 1/8" dia) in the top to break the siphon.

 

[TokenReefer]

That’s my ATO.

It looked like that. Just saying, if it were me, I'd look to downsize that container, maybe even move it to a remote location and route rodi lines back to the cabinet, so I could get a bigger sump. Of course I don't know your exact dimensions, etc. But I'd be investigating that solution, if it were me. I wish you the best of luck here.

 

[JGT]

That should work but you have to drill a small hole (about 1/8" dia) in the top to break the siphon.

And do both returns.