Chemistry seems all messed up

[allabout]

I'm having some issues with my chemistry and I'm not even sure where to go from here anymore.

Here's some background on the issues. I moved the tank from a 55 gal w/no sump to a 90 gal w/sump. The 55 had been set up for about 7 years, the 90 has been about 8 months or so. I used the same sand, same rocks, plus some rock from the new tank. The new rock was dry and not being used, he had torn down the tank. In the 55 I had green hair algae problems so I was hoping the sump and a new swc120 skimmer would help. It did for a while. Then my tank exploded with GHA, then dinoflagellates. My Nitrates/rites and phosphate always measured 0 which I understand could be a false reading. Also my ph was about 7.8. So I dosed with hydrogen peroxide, started dripping kalk (diy method) and had lights out for 3 days. After about a week of all this my tank never looked better.

Now it almost looks like the dino is coming back, just slightly. I can see a slight fuzz on some snails shells and the back wall. Not positive yet but I need to get this tank under control before I go crazy.

Measured today:
PH: 8.1
Alk: 3.75
Calcium: 520
Phosphates measures 0
temp: 76.6
Spec grav: 1.0225
Livestock: 2 small perc clowns, 2 small reef chromis, 1 scooter blenny, 2 sallie lightfoot crabs, about 25 or so hermits, 30 - 50 various snails, zoas (many of which won't open), candy cane coral, frag of brain coral, small frogspawn and hammer coral. I feed every other day 1/4 cube rinsed frozen mysis or marine cuisine. I run phosban in a reactor and have 3 hydor koralia powerheads. I used to buy my water but now have an ro/di unit and have been doing 15 - 20 gallon water changes every week for the past 5 or 6 weeks.

So I've read that raising ph will help control algae - A) Is this true, B) How can I do this besides dosing kalk? Is it ok for my calcium to be this high?

Should I test something else? I don't have a magnesium test but have others. I use seachem for everything except calcium (API) and they are all new tests.

I'd really not like to take out the sand but I've heard that might help. Is this necessary?

 

[skinz78]

What do you have in there for a clean up crew?

Is your alk measured in DKH or Meq/L?

I would get the Mag test kit and see where it is before changing other params too much.

 

[VegasRick]

How often are you changing your DI cartridge? Can test the output see if there is any p04 there
How often are you changing the gfo? If you killed all the hair algae then po4 should have registered at least a little bit and the gfo may be exhausted.
How long has it been since you moved it all to the new tank. And when you moved it all you really moved it all, nutrient issues too. Should have thrown away the sand and started with new sand. Going to take time to get all the nutrients out.
I have never seen anything that says algae doesn't like high ph.

 

[ColaAddict]

If you have algae of any kind, that means you have phosphates. don't even bother testing for phos, because alot of testers are inacurate. use your eye and look for algae growth. Best way to get rid of extra phos is a water change from RODI saltwater, some salt products have phosphate in them though.
You could also use a GFO reactor to suck out all phosphates and research carbon dosing for the nitrates.

 

[allabout]

What do you have in there for a clean up crew?

Is your alk measured in DKH or Meq/L?

I would get the Mag test kit and see where it is before changing other params too much.

My clean up crew is 2 sallie lightfoots, 1 peppermint shrimp, 1 coral banded shrimp, a few red hermits, maybe 20 - 30 blue leg hermits (some big some small), probably 30 astrea snails, 3 mexican turbos, lots of nerite and nassarius snails a few margarita snails I think. Lots and lots of copapods and amphipods and there are a lot of small worms in the rocks and sand (I believe spaghetti worms?).

Alk is Meq/L with a seachem test (new test).

Yeah I need to get a Mag test, I'll look for one tomorrow but not sure if any local stores would have one, might have to order it. How does that affect everything else? I need to research magnesium some more.

 

[allabout]

How often are you changing your DI cartridge? Can test the output see if there is any p04 there
How often are you changing the gfo? If you killed all the hair algae then po4 should have registered at least a little bit and the gfo may be exhausted.
How long has it been since you moved it all to the new tank. And when you moved it all you really moved it all, nutrient issues too. Should have thrown away the sand and started with new sand. Going to take time to get all the nutrients out.
I have never seen anything that says algae doesn't like high ph.

My DI cartridge is less than 2 months old, I bought the whole unit in January when I was ready to take on these issues. I'll try to test a batch of the output though, should I mix it with salt first to do the phos test?

I've changed the gfo twice in about 5 weeks maybe. I last changed it about two weeks ago. Someone said change it every 3 months but I've been doing it more frequently since I obviously have phos issues (stuff's super expensive though!).

Gah I wish I started with new sand. Its been about 7 or 8 months since I changed tanks. I thought the old sand would help with beneficial bacteria and the worms, etc. I should have known or researched that more. Would it help to maybe take out that sand and either cure it somehow or just get new sand? I just don't really like the look of bare bottom, although some people swear by it.

For the ph, I think I've read it in various places. Don't know if I can post links to other sites here or not but if you were to google "high ph to fight green hair algae in saltwater tank" or something similar there are a number of articles that state this. That doesn't make it true but when you're desperate you grasp for anything! It was also said that a higher ph helps agains dinoflagellates, which was my biggest problem.

 

[allabout]

If you have algae of any kind, that means you have phosphates. don't even bother testing for phos, because alot of testers are inacurate. use your eye and look for algae growth. Best way to get rid of extra phos is a water change from RODI saltwater, some salt products have phosphate in them though.
You could also use a GFO reactor to suck out all phosphates and research carbon dosing for the nitrates.

Doing both, I have a GFO reactor running with extra media in it and I change about 15 - 20% water every week. I used reef crystals before and now I'm using Red Sea Coral Pro. I also bought a brand new rodi unit just for water changes.

Maybe all I need is time, but I just want to stay on top of it. It was really bad before and its no fun having a tank when all you do is pull out algae and your zoas and stuff won't open

 

[ColaAddict]

You will have to use the GFO pretty agressively if you have dino. some say to overuse them and use more and change more often. You have plenty of clean up crew. maybe you need to feed less, or get a better skimmer.

 

[VegasRick]

My DI cartridge is less than 2 months old, I bought the whole unit in January when I was ready to take on these issues. I'll try to test a batch of the output though, should I mix it with salt first to do the phos test?

I've changed the gfo twice in about 5 weeks maybe. I last changed it about two weeks ago. Someone said change it every 3 months but I've been doing it more frequently since I obviously have phos issues (stuff's super expensive though!).

Gah I wish I started with new sand. Its been about 7 or 8 months since I changed tanks. I thought the old sand would help with beneficial bacteria and the worms, etc. I should have known or researched that more. Would it help to maybe take out that sand and either cure it somehow or just get new sand? I just don't really like the look of bare bottom, although some people swear by it.

For the ph, I think I've read it in various places. Don't know if I can post links to other sites here or not but if you were to google "high ph to fight green hair algae in saltwater tank" or something similar there are a number of articles that state this. That doesn't make it true but when you're desperate you grasp for anything! It was also said that a higher ph helps agains dinoflagellates, which was my biggest problem.

Just test straight rodi, time isn't a good measure for changing di but rather how many gallons you have processed. Because of issues with my well I have to change it every 75-100g. But you should be able to get more.

As for high ph fighting algae, the only link I found worth reading was http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC244231/pdf/aem00187-0082.pdf. And while I only skimmed it there was nothing there that convinced me. 1) they weren't using algae commonly found in the reef tank. 2) different algae have different tolerances and 3) it seemed to be more of a co2 inhibition. Not saying it won't help, just not enough data for me to say that it will

You can always pull the old sand and once the problem is beat add new sand.

I would never use old sand even if it was rinsed, filtered, nuked or lasered.

Anything you do is going to take time, the first thing you need to do is make sure you aren't adding more nutrients to the problem with bad RODI.
Second is get the nutrients out. GFO can get exhausted in just a couple days in a tank with high phosphates.

 

[allabout]

Thanks for all the help guys. Ok so let me narrow this down to a few questions so I have a plan. First, I'll check my rodi water for phosphates. I also plan to get a mag test and will get those results.

I assume it would be best to remove the sand at this point and add new sand later? By that I mean would that be the quickest, most effective way to attack this? Should I remove all the sand in my refugium as well?

I don't plan to do any of this until I have a good plan. I've spent a ton on this lately (mostly needed stuff anyway) but the fish tank fund is running short haha so I want to make sure I know what will fix it.

 

[allabout]

I tested my source water for phosphates and got 0. I also checked my tds meter and it still says 0 tds for my output so I'm confident I'm not adding any phophates or anything else with water changes. I'm still trying to get a mag test, none at the stores around here.

So same questions as above I guess. Should removing the sand "cure" this problem? Is it possible its the rock and not the sand? I'd hate to do all that work for nothing, but I'd be happy to do it if that would solve the problem.