Chloroquin phosphate

svogun · Mar 6, 2015

Recently picked up some CP from national fish pharmacy. Looking for anyone with feedback on this product particularly regarding dosing instructions. I reached out to them but have not heard back. Currently using a 34 gallon tank for quarantine. What confuses me about the instructions is the water changes. Bottle indicates to dose 1/4 tsp per 10 gallons doing a 25% water change prior to each treatment and to treat for a minimum of 10 days. I get the impression that I'm essentially dosing daily for 10 days with 25% water changes daily. All the literature I have seen regarding CP indicates to dose once and only replace when you are doing water changes. Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

mfinn · Mar 6, 2015

My container of CP says 1/4 tsp per 10 gallons too and that's all I add.

svogun · Mar 6, 2015

Yes but are dosing daily for 10 days with a water change daily or just one dose?

mfinn · Mar 6, 2015

No, I just do the one dose.

svogun · Mar 6, 2015

Yeah that makes more sense. Thanks. Also you run lights off correct?

mfinn · Mar 6, 2015

svogun said:
Yeah that makes more sense. Thanks. Also you run lights off correct?

I just read in a thread here on R2R that someone mentioned turning off the lights.
I have not done that.
I use a 20 watt fluorescent bulb over my qt-tank.

Since there is no way to measure the amount of CP in the water, I'm not sure where I stand on the matter.

Mike J. · Mar 6, 2015

Chloroquin phosphate remains active in an aquarium for weeks. So, that should answer your question. The treatment period should be for 10 days. Important to keep an eye on ammonia because CP is also known to upset bacterial nitrification. Good aeration is also necessary.

Aquarium Fish: Chloroquine: A "New" Drug for Treating Fish Diseases ? Advanced Aquarist | Aquarist Magazine and Blog

mfinn · Mar 6, 2015

Mike J. said:
Chloroquin phosphate remains active in an aquarium for weeks. So, that should answer your question. The treatment period should be for 10 days. Important to keep an eye on ammonia because CP is also known to upset bacterial nitrification. Good aeration is also necessary.

Aquarium Fish: Chloroquine: A "New" Drug for Treating Fish Diseases ? Advanced Aquarist | Aquarist Magazine and Blog

A new drug? lol
This was around a long time ago.

I always thought that CP did not upset the bacteria needed for bio-filter.

Humblefish · Mar 6, 2015

A lot of folks have had problems with CP coming from National Fish Pharmacy. CP is a "one and done" drug, and the fact that NFP is saying to dose daily suggests their product is something other than pharmaceutical grade 99% pure CP. Perhaps it contains fillers to increase profitability?

I have used CP pretty extensively for 5-6 years now and everything I know about it is here: https://www.reef2reef.com/forums/fish-disease-treatment-diagnosis/192309-chloroquine-phosphate.html

svogun · Mar 6, 2015

Humblefish said:
A lot of folks have had problems with CP coming from National Fish Pharmacy. CP is a "one and done" drug, and the fact that NFP is saying to dose daily suggests their product is something other than pharmaceutical grade 99% pure CP. Perhaps it contains fillers to increase profitability?

I have used CP pretty extensively for 5-6 years now and everything I know about it is here: https://www.reef2reef.com/forums/fish-disease-treatment-diagnosis/192309-chloroquine-phosphate.html

Great infor here. And I did read your link as well. Thanks for the info.

svogun · Mar 6, 2015

I just heard back from NFP. They clarified that it is a one and done treatment for the minimum of 10 days but recommend in smaller quarantines keeping an eye on ammonia levels and consider a 25% water change every 3-4 days with repeat dosing to avoid an ammonia spike. Which makes more sense to me that what I orginally thought.

Deinonych · Mar 6, 2015

No experience with the NFP product, but you should dose for more than 10 days to ensure elimination of the parasite. Also, I would not run any lights on the tank -- especially fluorescent lights -- as they emit UV that will break down the CP. Ambient room light is fine.

svogun · Mar 6, 2015

Yeah I certainly plan on a 30 day treatment period and am also just having ambient light.

mtfish · Mar 6, 2015

I am now confused on duration of treatment for ich. Alprazo's recommendation is 30 days and this thread states 10 days. I am interested because I got myself in an issue from adding a coral frag that must of had ich cysts so now I have to catch and treat 19 fish and go fallow for 10 weeks. If treatment is for 10 days, then I can see using CP on most of the fish. If it is for 30 days, then I will do TTM on all fish. I have several tanks that I can use but either way will be a major pain. Can someone comment on duration of treatment for active ich?

svogun · Mar 6, 2015

Sorry for the confusion. I am using CP preventatively in a bare bottom quarantine setting. I do not have active disease in my new arrivals.

Mike J. · Mar 6, 2015

I'm starting to doubt myself on my 10 day treatment recommendation. It's good to know that the pharmacy company says the same thing. Also, my years and years of studying bacteria and protozoans and such. One thing I will point out is when we, as humans, have a bacterial infection the recommended dose of antibiotics is usually for 10 - 14 days.

svogun · Mar 6, 2015

Mike J. said:
I'm starting to doubt myself on my 10 day treatment recommendation. It's good to know that the pharmacy company says the same thing. Also, my years and years of studying bacteria and protozoans and such. One thing I will point out is when we, as humans, have a bacterial infection the recommended dose of antibiotics is usually for 10 - 14 days.

Its definitely an issue. I think when we are prophylactically treating CP in quarantine with asymptomatic fish, we have the benfit of time and observation. I think when it comes to treating an infestation, we may be better served with a longer course of treatment or use of an adjunct with the CP such as hyposalinity. My plan will be a 30 day treatment of CP, with addition of CP only when I do a water change. Quarantine will be for a full 6 weeks with a 5-7 day course of prazipro once CP is done. Also I should add that I do a paraguard bath when temp acclimating new arrivals to the QT tank.

Humblefish · Mar 6, 2015

For the time being, I advocate treating with CP the same as you would copper. So, that means assuming CP only targets the "free swimming stage" of external parasites i.e. ich theronts or velvet dinospores. I also advocate treating for 30 days, same as copper.

However, I am working on a theory that I can summarize like this: From everything I've researched, the stage of ich (i.e. trophonts) that actually lives on the fish can only remain for a maximum of 7 days before it has to drop off. All other external parasites (velvet, brook, uronema) have an even shorter duration period. If you treat a fish in QT with CP for 10 days and then move that fish to another QT (non-medicated water), you will leave behind whatever external parasites he may have had in the first QT. You do not remove or lower the CP prior to transferring, as that is what is shielding the fish from reinfection.

I have begun the first clinical trials on this theory and am documenting everything on my local forum: Humblefish *NEW* QT protocol : Fish Diseases - Diagnosis & Treatment - Louisiana Reef Club

Once I feel I have proven my theory, I will start a thread here on R2R and share all my findings. In the meantime, I stress this is just a theory of mine and for everyone to keep treating for the standard 30 days.