Chloroquine phosphate

[Reef Fever]

Wouldn't running a UV eliminate heterotrophic bacteria in your QTs? Of course, it would also remove the CP but should leave the bio-filter intact. Perhaps something to do in-between batches of fish. Otherwise, I'm assuming the only way to counteract this problem is to break down the QT after CP treatment or in your case with a large QT, sterilize it with bleach.

Absolutely, however our systems aren't outfitted with UV. they would require a good deal of replumbing to fit them in. Bleach is the way we went. We have 6 750 gallons and 3 240's. I will be doing one at a time since we are in no rush

 

[omykiss001]

Absolutely, however our systems aren't outfitted with UV. they would require a good deal of replumbing to fit them in. Bleach is the way we went. We have 6 750 gallons and 3 240's. I will be doing one at a time since we are in no rush

This would be true if the bacteria are free swimming and live in the water column, however this species could live on surfaces or in bio films and would not get processed by the UV. Would be a simple experiment to do and find out.

 

[Humblefish]

This would be true if the bacteria are free swimming and live in the water column, however this species could live on surfaces or in bio films and would not get processed by the UV. Would be a simple experiment to do and find out.

So, the only safe way to use CP (to ensure levels remain therapeutic) would be to break down & sterilize the QT in-between batches of fish? I'm also wondering if nitrifying bacteria (as found in a QT bio-filter) could feed off of CP? Reducing the therapeutic level in the process.

 

[nanomania]

So cp wont be removed 100% even if the tank is emptied and left for drying?

 

[Humblefish]

So cp wont be removed 100% even if the tank is emptied and left for drying?

???

 

[nanomania]

???

I dint understand ur last post

 

[Humblefish]

I dint understand ur last post

We're trying to figure out if bacteria in a QT will consume CP (and other meds) and if so, how long until it starts to happen. I am doing a ton of research right now, and reaching out to everyone I know who might be able to shed some light. Might be a game changer for those who maintain permanent QTs.

 

[Greenstreet.1]

Well my vet just said no so guess I'll stick to prazi and copper

 

[Breefin1220]

Because most people only have one QT to work with. CP/copper/hypo only targets the free swimming or theront stage. If a fish has ich, the treatment tank he is in won't reach the theront stage until 2-3 weeks (on average) so treating for 30 days allows for a little wiggle room. Indeed, even treating for 30 days may not be long enough if you happen to encounter a strain of ich with a prolonged life cycle (very rare). But the bottom line is this: With only one QT, you are actually treating the tank for ich more so than the fish itself.

However, if you can setup TWO QTs (at least 10 feet apart) - a treatment tank and a separate observation tank - then that is a game changer. Any trophonts will have dropped off a fish after 7 days max, and all the CP/copper/hypo is doing is protecting a fish from reinfection. So by removing the fish to a new sterile tank, he will stay disease-free. Obviously, nothing can be reused from the treatment tank for the observation tank to prevent cross contamination.

I still advocate watching the fish for awhile in the observation tank just to be sure no human error has occurred such as cross contamination.

So let me know if this qt method sounds OK.
I planned on using a 40g breeder tank as my qt. Never heard of CP before this. Am noworking going to find a vet that will let me use this. Can I put fish into a 10g for the 7-10 days to let the CP do its job then take it into my newly dubbed observation tank? (The 40g). Now between moving fish from 10g CP tank (all incoming, not just sick fish), should they get some kind of freshwater dip or even clean saltwater dip to be sure none of the medicated tank water is on them? If not just match salinity and temp and go straight from the 10g to the 40g?.

 

[Breefin1220]

And about your bacteria consuming CP I was actually going to ask that in my previous post . Do you need to soak the sponge in bleach, dry, then vinegar, dry, then rinse and ready to apply new bottled bacteria or let set in tank? (I'll have to do bottled most likely. Unless I put into my new set up which isn't here yet! Hehe

 

[Humblefish]

So let me know if this qt method sounds OK.
I planned on using a 40g breeder tank as my qt. Never heard of CP before this. Am noworking going to find a vet that will let me use this. Can I put fish into a 10g for the 7-10 days to let the CP do its job then take it into my newly dubbed observation tank? (The 40g). Now between moving fish from 10g CP tank (all incoming, not just sick fish), should they get some kind of freshwater dip or even clean saltwater dip to be sure none of the medicated tank water is on them? If not just match salinity and temp and go straight from the 10g to the 40g?.

The fish needs to be exposed to CP for a minimum of 10 days; 14 days would afford an even greater safety net. The fish is then transferred to an observation tank (at least 10 feet away from the treatment tank). No FW dips or chemical baths are required prior to transferring, just ensure SG & temp match perfectly between the two tanks so the fish can go directly in. I would also consider deworming the fish using Prazipro while in observation: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/prazipro.247598/

And about your bacteria consuming CP I was actually going to ask that in my previous post . Do you need to soak the sponge in bleach, dry, then vinegar, dry, then rinse and ready to apply new bottled bacteria or let set in tank? (I'll have to do bottled most likely. Unless I put into my new set up which isn't here yet! Hehe

Myself (and others) are currently researching this. However, it appears only anaerobic bacteria should be capable of consuming/breaking down medications like CP. Aerobic bacteria (like the kind found in your sponge) should not be the culprit. Still trying to figure out exactly how would anaerobic bacteria get into a bare bottom/rockless QT. Perhaps @Reef Fever could elaborate more on how the QTs are setup at the aquarium where he works.

 

[Breefin1220]

So the treatment of prazipro in the observation tank. Once the fish comes out of there into the display tank say a month later, will all that water in the observation tank need to be dumped and the tank cleaned? I'm planning on it being a 40g breeder tank I'm currently using so I don't wanna have to dump and reset up each time I get a fish.

 

[Greenstreet.1]

Prazi only last for 72hrs so I usually do a nice size water change after then keep an eye on them for about two weeks to see if more prazi treatment is needed.

 

[Breefin1220]

I mean once they're OK and In the clear to enter the dt can the observation tank stay as is after that last water change? Or do you have to completely break it down and sanitize it. I don't mind having a 40g observation tank as long as I don't have to dump 40g of water out every time a fish is in it. If so I'll just get 2 10gals instead of a 10 and this 40.

 

[Breefin1220]

@Humblefish did you happen to see that fishremedies.com site you linked, towards the beginning of your post, offered the certificate of analysis for each item ordered (along with the msds sheet) during checkout?

 

[Breefin1220]

Another question! If this stuff is real bad for coral sps and LPS, will this be a problem if the coral share anot observation tank with the fish just coming out of the CP medicated tank? Drops of the CP medicated water will still be on them. Idk how big of a deal a few drops are? And or how toxic this is

 

[melypr1985]

Another question! If this stuff is real bad for coral sps and LPS, will this be a problem if the coral share anot observation tank with the fish just coming out of the CP medicated tank? Drops of the CP medicated water will still be on them. Idk how big of a deal a few drops are? And or how toxic this is

You dont want the corals to share a QT with fish at all or any stage of the fish's treatment. It's not because the fish might bring something extra to the party... it's because the corals might. The parasites that are incysted on the corals could break free and reinfect your fish. Not only that, with fish present when that happens the parasites wont just starve and die, their life cycle continues.

 

[Breefin1220]

So a separate non medicated tank is in order? Or is there a medication for corals? (Other than coral rx)

 

[Humblefish]

@Humblefish did you happen to see that fishremedies.com site you linked, towards the beginning of your post, offered the certificate of analysis for each item ordered (along with the msds sheet) during checkout?

Yes, I've had conversations with the owner about his CP. He confirmed to me it is sourced from China, but also mentioned the Certificate of Analysis. However, the skeptic in me says the Certificate of Analysis could be for the first batch of CP they sent him while subsequent shipments may have been watered down. It doesn't make any sense for him to be able to sell it for 18 cents/gram when the going rate is $5-6/gram (due to a shortage). I also have more faith in the purity of CP bought from an American, Canadian or European pharmacy ... as that CP is meant for human consumption (to treat malaria) and thus, there would be severe criminal and civil penalties for watering down that stuff.

So a separate non medicated tank is in order? Or is there a medication for corals? (Other than coral rx)

Below is a pic of my 29 gal "fishless" frag tank. I place all corals/inverts in here for 76 days before they go into my DT. Just cheap T5 lighting, Koralia powerhead, HOB powerfilter, heater, rock/sand and a frag rack gets the job done.

 

[MCooper]

Reposted with permission.
Below is alprazo's "Chloroquine Primer". I consider alprazo to be the "founding father" of CP; because without his insistence, the usefulness of this medication would have been lost to ignorance.

Is this the proper dosing?