Chromis and Uronema in new DT - help!

desertchill · Feb 21, 2018

Hi - newbie here. Need advice - sorry in advance for the long story. Recently set up a 130gal with 75lbs of dry live rock and sand. I did a fishless cycle (and added a bottle of API quickstart that came free with my sand) and at 4 weeks my water looked good after a decent ammonia and nitrite spike:
Amm: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 10-20ppm
PH: 8.1
Temp: 77
SG: 1.024

I thought a small school of Green Chromis would be a good first fish - allegedly hardy, easy, good starter fish - at least according to the online vendors. So I ordered 6 from LA (I'm remote - no LFS), then acclimated and added them directly to the main tank (no QT yet - big mistake obviously). 2 died immediately, and then over the next few days the others all died, all with red spots on their bodies. I figured the red spots were wounds from rough shipping. Also, 3 of them had gone over the falls (overflow) into the heater chamber, where I had to net them out, so I guessed I might have stressed them severely or pinned them/hurt them with the net (the heater chamber is a weird triangle shape - very tough to net out of). So, I waited 1 week, put screens over the overflows, and ordered another school of 8 chromis. This time 2 arrived dead, and then one day later 3 more have died, all with red spots. As I type, 3 are still alive and looking OK.

So after researching (which I should have done first), it appears they all have / had Uronema, and it is in my DT. My question is, what to do now? It seems there are basically 2 opinions about what to do if this disease is in your DT:

1) Break down the tank entirely, throw out the sand and buy new, bleach / sun dry all of the rock and the tank, and start over.
2) Live with the disease in the tank, and never add chromis / damsels again.

I definitely prefer option 2, as long as I can be reasonably confident that no other fish will get this if I am careful with everything else. If it really has to be option 1, I'd probably just break it down and give up SW, and do a FW tank again instead. And yes, I'll set up a QT for the future.

Opinions / experiences appreciated please.

Jesterrace · Feb 21, 2018

Chromis are not hardy fish IMHO, they are really hit and miss. Some people have great long term luck with them and others have nothing but problems with them. Damsels are hardy fish but are buttheads to other fish. I agree that option 2 would be the best. As a precaution I would recommend giving your new fish some Kent's Garlic to help boost their immune systems in addition to the quarantine.

EmdeReef · Feb 21, 2018

If truly uronema you’ll have to treat, it can infect other fish, although not as common. But It’s not endemic to damsels... I don’t know its lifecycle, but as it’s a protozoan it can likely survive in a fishless tank for a very long time.

desertchill · Feb 21, 2018

Jesterrace said:
Chromis are not hardy fish IMHO, they are really hit and miss. Some people have great long term luck with them and others have nothing but problems with them. Damsels are hardy fish but are buttheads to other fish. I agree that option 2 would be the best. As a precaution I would recommend giving your new fish some Kent's Garlic to help boost their immune systems in addition to the quarantine.

Yes, from what I've been reading it seems Chromis have been very prone to this disease in more recent years. Definitely not a good starter fish. Thanks for the advice.

desertchill · Feb 21, 2018

EmdeReef said:
If truly uronema you’ll have to treat, it can infect other fish, although not as common. But It’s not endemic to damsels... I don’t know its lifecycle, but as it’s a protozoan it can likely survive in a fishless tank for a very long time.

Thanks, I was afraid of this. I've read it will live on in a fishless tank, and I've also read that treatments other than complete teardown/restart are not likely to be effective.

I'd love to know if anyone has had it in their tank but not treated, and not had issues with other fish.

EmdeReef · Feb 21, 2018

@Humblefish?

I’ve only dealt with it in a QT, tough one to treat too. No idea if you’d have to tear down completely....

desertchill · Feb 21, 2018

EmdeReef said:
@Humblefish?

I’ve only dealt with it in a QT, tough one to treat too. No idea if you’d have to tear down completely....

Thanks - yes - lots of conflicting opinions out there on this one - tear down, try to treat, or live with it and hope for the best.

cycled123 · Feb 21, 2018

Sorry you need to tear down. There is no way to kill this disease without it. And yes it will affect ALL fish. Some are more prone to it but all will have effects. QT is a must! Lost 5 fish to uronema, and 1 to velvet in the last 2 months. Don't give up but need to be prepared.

EmdeReef · Feb 21, 2018

Back in the 80s it wiped out or close to wiped out a public aquarium, I’m away from my laptop but perhaps google and see what they ended up doing. I know that for fish farms it’s generally close to to a tear down...

Big G · Feb 21, 2018

Just this week, we've had a rash of apparently Uronema in fish other than Chromis. Not good. Very difficult to treat.
Might want to read this thread and check out post #25 https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/w...butterfly-with-parasites.360653/#post-4468866

desertchill · Feb 21, 2018

cycled123 said:
Sorry you need to tear down. There is no way to kill this disease without it. And yes it will affect ALL fish. Some are more prone to it but all will have effects. QT is a must! Lost 5 fish to uronema, and 1 to velvet in the last 2 months. Don't give up but need to be prepared.

Thanks - afraid of that. I was going to QT everything after the "hardy" chromis - I figured new tank, no other fish, what's the worst that could happen without QT? Uronema, apparently is the worst that could happen. Lesson learned.

EmdeReef · Feb 21, 2018

desertchill said:
Thanks - afraid of that. I was going to QT everything after the "hardy" chromis - I figured new tank, no other fish, what's the worst that could happen without QT? Uronema, apparently is the worst that could happen. Lesson learned.

We’ve all been there. Fortunately, as much pain as it is, your tank is new. I’m pretty sure you can salvage the rocks at least.

However, before you tear anything down it would be good to be pretty certain it is uronema. It’s a very fast killer and you mention you have 3 still alive after a day or two? Any discoloration, lethargy or anything unusual?

desertchill · Feb 21, 2018

EmdeReef said:
We’ve all been there. Fortunately, as much pain as it is, your tank is new. I’m pretty sure you can salvage the rocks at least.

However, before you tear anything down it would be good to be pretty certain it is uronema. It’s a very fast killer and you mention you have 3 still alive after a day or two? Any discoloration, lethargy or anything unusual?

The 3 remaining all look ok at this time. The first batch died over a period of 3 days, but once the red spots show up it seems it's within 12 hours. I'm going to get some meds ordered based on the post Big G provided earlier, but it may be too late for these guys if they follow the same timeline as the first batch. At least I'll have the meds for the future.

EmdeReef · Feb 21, 2018

You could try a fw bath, it seems to work in very early stages maybe buys you some time.

desertchill · Feb 21, 2018

EmdeReef said:
You could try a fw bath, it seems to work in very early stages maybe buys you some time.

Thanks - I may try that tonight - if I can net them.

Humblefish · Feb 21, 2018

Unfortunately, I have nothing but bad news for you.

Uronema is a “free living” parasite which does not require a fish host. So, going fallow will not eradicate it. Most fish seem protected from it via their natural immune system; but for some reason, chromis and some other fish are not always afforded this protection. Once a tank has Uronema, it must be assumed that the disease can survive in there almost indefinitely.

If you can catch the surviving chromis, I would give them either a freshwater dip or formalin bath en route to QT. Once in QT, treat with either Chloroquine or Metronidazole. A fish infected with uronema should also be fed food soaked with metronidazole because the disease can spread internally. Seachem Focus can be used to bind the medication to the food.

And yes, I know what you're thinking. This is one BA disease.

desertchill · Feb 22, 2018

Humblefish said:
Unfortunately, I have nothing but bad news for you. Uronema is a “free living” parasite which does not require a fish host. So, going fallow will not eradicate it. Most fish seem protected from it via their natural immune system; but for some reason, chromis and some other fish are not always afforded this protection. Once a tank has Uronema, it must be assumed that the disease can survive in there almost indefinitely.

If you can catch the surviving chromis, I would give them either a freshwater dip or formalin bath en route to QT. Once in QT, treat with either Chloroquine or Metronidazole. A fish infected with uronema should also be fed food soaked with metronidazole because the disease can spread internally. Seachem Focus can be used to bind the medication to the food.

And yes, I know what you're thinking. This is one BA disease.

Thanks for the info, even if it's bad news. As of this morning the 3 remaining chromis all look good with no signs, so I'm still hopeful.

desertchill · Feb 22, 2018

I found another thread with a similar story: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/chromis-with-uronema-i-think-now-what.332935/. The pic in this post looks similar to all of the ones I've had that have died.

The post from @Colby Johnson was encouraging - a different opinion: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/chromis-with-uronema-i-think-now-what.332935/#post-4145168

"Contrary to popular belief, if you have Uronema in your tank you do not need to "break everything down, sterilize and start over", that will just result in a lot of wasted time and effort! Uronemids are ubiquitous opportunistic ectoparasites that are present in every single tank. I have had many people tell me there is no way it is in their tank, and I have found it in every single one of their tanks through baiting."

Anyone else share this opinion?

Big G · Feb 22, 2018

desertchill said:
I found another thread with a similar story: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/chromis-with-uronema-i-think-now-what.332935/. The pic in this post looks similar to all of the ones I've had that have died.

The post from @Colby Johnson was encouraging - a different opinion: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/chromis-with-uronema-i-think-now-what.332935/#post-4145168

"Contrary to popular belief, if you have Uronema in your tank you do not need to "break everything down, sterilize and start over", that will just result in a lot of wasted time and effort! Uronemids are ubiquitous opportunistic ectoparasites that are present in every single tank. I have had many people tell me there is no way it is in their tank, and I have found it in every single one of their tanks through baiting."

Anyone else share this opinion?

Thanks for the post. I'm a h-u-g-e fan of nitrofuracine green powder. Lot's of water changes though LOL

Tautog · Feb 22, 2018

Sorry for all of this to you, but Welcome to Reef 2 Reef, you will get answers here!
I hate buying fish on line, I would fight with LA, and their guarantee.
What’s done is done!
I had to plug any gaps around the returns and overflow. One Chromis made 6 trips threw to the sump.
Good Luck! Don’t give up or in, get even, be determined!