Cl reading from Triton Test high - is this possible?

dangros · Dec 8, 2015

My triton test results came w/Cl at 19500.00 mg/l. I have some SPS, several anemones, including a baby carpet, and 3 small fish. Wouldn't everything be dead and smelling like a load of laundry if they were that high?
I will test my spectrapure unit tonight to see if it's in need of filter replacement.
@Randy Holmes-Farley @AZDesertRat you guys have any insight into this? I guess the testing for Cl is new b/c they didnt even show it on my previous test result back in mid Aug.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByF7p7FafEOMSllYMU9UUW5OYXc/view?usp=sharing

Randy Holmes-Farley · Dec 8, 2015

Chloride (not chlorine) is the most abundant ion in seawater, and in 35 ppt seawater is present at about that level (19,400 ppm).

So it is fine.

JimWelsh · Dec 8, 2015

dangros said:
My triton test results came w/Cl at 19500.00 mg/l.

No, your Cl result on the test is 0.00 mg/L. The Triton "Setpoint" for Cl is 19,500.

dangros · Dec 8, 2015

LOL! That's my target salinity. How embarrassing. Thanks Randy! I wonder why they mark it as red since 35ppm is pretty common.

dangros · Dec 8, 2015

Jim, you're right. So how can it be 0?

Randy Holmes-Farley · Dec 8, 2015

It definitely isn't 0 ppm. They probably just didn't measure it.

dangros · Dec 8, 2015

Yeah, unless I mixed up my salt w/flower

Randy Holmes-Farley · Dec 8, 2015

dangros said:
Yeah, unless I mixed up my salt w/flower

My wife and I made carrot cake not long after we were married. We each thought the other put the flour in.

It came out like carrot candy.

JimWelsh · Dec 8, 2015

FWIW, your Cl can be calculated from the other elements listed, if one assumes reasonable values for alkalinity and Fluorine. Your Cl calculates out to about 20907 mg/L, and your salinity calculates out to about 36.7.

dangros · Dec 8, 2015

They both sound delicious Randy! Maybe that's what I need to give my wife to convince her that we need a longer tank! Either that or throw some diamonds in it (she likes to state that diamonds would be cheaper and last longer than my tank).

36.7 is a lot higher than the 35 I try to target. In fact, I'm a bit disturbed by it being higher than 35. I will test the DT, then calibrate my pinpoint and test again! Thanks @JimWelsh

dangros · Dec 9, 2015

I calibrated my pinpoint salinity monitor and it was dead on at 53. my DT water was at 53.1. Not sure how the readings can be so far off

JimWelsh · Dec 9, 2015

Well, the calculation relies upon the accuracy of the Triton results, but the math behind it is quite sound. In my case, it did correctly indicate a salinity of 34 when I was targeting 35, and independent testing via various other methods showed the calculation based on Triton results to be correct, rather than my mis-calibrated refractometer.

I have reviewed your Triton results and my calculation to make sure I made no mistake, and got the same result.

Look at this another way: For the Macro Elements, your results are higher than the Triton setpoint for almost all of the elements, except for the bromine and boron, which are present in relative small quantities compared to the other elements. The Triton setpoints more or less reflect NSW levels for S=35, but with elevated calcium and magnesium. Your Na is about 2% over the NSW level for S=35. Your Ca is 7% over. Your Mg is a whopping 20% over. Your K is 3% over. Your S is 4% over. So, if your values are consistently higher than NSW levels at S=35, then you would expect your S to be significantly great than 35, yes?

JimWelsh · Dec 9, 2015

Clarification of the above: I just realized I used "S" to mean both sulfur and salinity. The only place above where I mean sulfur is "Your S is 4% over." All the other instances of "S" are meant to indicate salinity.

dangros · Dec 10, 2015

I'm still confused b/c I calibrated 2 times with 2 different bottles of calibration fluid which were both set to 35 (salinity). I've also been using 2 1/2 cups of either IO or Red Sea Pro salt per 5g of water when mixing so that should still be 35. I have an ATO topping off the water so evaporation shouldn't be a factor. Having said that, my previous Triton test results (from mid Aug) were mostly higher than the one you saw:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByF7p7FafEOMTU9fRGh1Y2ZqTWM/view?usp=sharing

1) Before getting my calc reactor, I had issues getting coralline algae to grow. This was in spite of having good params. This was the reason I boosted my Mg using @Randy Holmes-Farley's magic recipe. I've kept it at 1500 since. There was also a brown alg issue which I believe was from bacteria getting in the RODI brute cans stored in the hot garage. Note the Si levels in the 1st test.
2) I'm still tinkering w/the Ca reactor and at the time of this test, Hanna claims the Alk to be between 11 and 11.8! As of 2 days ago, I have turned off the CO2 in the reactor and will do a couple water changes by the end of the weekend in order to bring things down a notch.
3) It's probably w/in the margin of error but my Phosphate (Hanna low range) also measures at 0
and Triton has it over .01

When testing the salinity in the tank, I was not turning off the powerheads, does that matter?

Randy Holmes-Farley · Dec 10, 2015

With respect to phosphate, the Triton method will detect forms that the Hanna does not. Triton will detect anything that contains a P atom and makes it to the plasma, which will include organic forms. So these numbers need not agree exactly. That said, the claimed error bars on the Hanna 736 are +/- 0.015 ppm.

What brand calibration fluids? How far off of the tank temp was the calibration fluid? How long do you wait? When I put my Pinpoint into tank water from a cool basement, it takes several minutes to come to temp and get a stable reading. My Orion adjusts a lot faster, but as long as you wait, the time should not matter too much.

The Pinpoint is adjusting for temp differences once equilibrated, but it may not be perfect in that regard. So it's best to have the calibration fluid reasonably close to the tank temp before use (at least not 42 deg F from a garage). You can test this issue by putting some tank water in a cup and measure the conductivity, then let it cool to room temp and see what (if any) change you see in conductivity.

If you have a scale, you can also make your own conductivity standard.

dangros · Dec 10, 2015

The calibration fluid is from Pinpoint. I reordered the same bottle they supply w/the meter. I placed the fluid in a tiny plastic cup (the size of a shot glass) and sat in front of the tv for a couple minutes before turning the Pinpoint on. The tank is at 78 degrees and the calibration fluid is stored at room temp which was in the mid to upper 60s. When I measure the tank's salinity, I leave the probe in the tank for a few minutes then come back and turn it on to get the reading. I do the same when making water. I will clean the probe and test the tank again tonight. I do have a very precise scale, I just need to find the recipe. I remember you having one Randy.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Dec 10, 2015

dangros said:
The calibration fluid is from Pinpoint. I reordered the same bottle they supply w/the meter. I placed the fluid in a tiny plastic cup (the size of a shot glass) and sat in front of the tv for a couple minutes before turning the Pinpoint on. The tank is at 78 degrees and the calibration fluid is stored at room temp which was in the mid to upper 60s. When I measure the tank's salinity, I leave the probe in the tank for a few minutes then come back and turn it on to get the reading. I do the same when making water. I will clean the probe and test the tank again tonight. I do have a very precise scale, I just need to find the recipe. I remember you having one Randy.

OK, that all sounds good.