Clamped Fins

Manny’s Reef · Oct 21, 2022

Trying to identify what may be causing the clamped fins on my newly acquired juvenile emperor angel.

I received him and and a blonde naso tang on Tuesday (today is Friday.) They both went straight into QT with 0 copper. I observed them for about 8 hours before adding copper. Day 1 I raised copper using cupramine to .11. Day 2 I raised copper to .23. I'm using the Hanna checker to test copper. QT is well aerated. Anyhow, emperor starting looking like it was treading water. It was struggling to maintain itself afloat b/c two of its fins were not moving. I'm not familiar with the anatomical name of the fins but if a fish had a chest, these fins would be on the chest. Had to run a 30 minute errand. Came home and it was laying on the glass, gasping. I immediately thought high ammonia.

I removed angel fish and placed in a sterile observation tank I had setup in case something like this happened. I tested ammonia using a Red Sea ammonia test kit. It read .08. Seemed incredibly high to me and I wondered if the cupramine was making it register higher than it really was, especially since these two fish are tiny and were only in the QT for 2 days. Not sure. QT is 10 gallons. Anyhow, fish recovered within minutes. Makes me believe that ammonia was at least part of the problem, if not all. There were some signs of red irritation on one side of the cheek area of the face. Otherwise, the fish has beautiful colors. Its markings are stunningly deep. However, its two fins still seem clamped. I'm trying to determine what may be causing the fin clamp. I wondering if it was a combination of shipping stress and the potentially high ammonia. If so, it may be just fine when I get home.

Is it possible for flukes to cause the clamped fins? I don't see any signs of flukes but I know that angels are more susceptible to flukes. I prefer not to do a freshwater dip because the stress he's already undergone. I'll dose this observation tank with prazi and when he is better conditioned, he'll go back to copper for 30 days.

For the record angel is about 2" and naso about 3". I did a 100% water change in the QT last night with cupramine at .33 before tang went back in. I was slowly increasing copper b/c of the angel. QT is being fed frozen mysis once a day. I'm using a very small amount. I have metro, prazi, and kanoplex all on hand.

Also I forgot to add, though I'm not a big fan of using the ammonia badge as they seem less accurate than the red sea test kit, I did go ahead and order some more. I usually stock a few but currently happen to be out. Should arrive tomorrow.

EDIT: I'm wondering if clamped fins might be a deceiving description. They don't look clamped to the body. They are outstretched and appear more to be stiff and frozen in place, rather than against the body.

MnFish1 · Oct 21, 2022

A couple questions - when you bought the fish how did it look (or - when it was in the bag - if you received it online) - how did it look?

Second - How does the Tang look - any signs of illness? Usually 'clamped fins' IME are due to 1) abnormal/poor water conditions (did you happen to match salinity, etc between the water in your tank and the bags)? OR 2) another gill disease - which has not yet manifested. Your ammonia of 0.8 - depending on the pH - could be a concern - did you happen to use any Prime - which is reported to cause problems. ? Any more information? If the Tang is unaffected (so far) - it somewhat mitigates against a systemic toxin. However. - some fish are more or less susceptible

Manny’s Reef · Oct 21, 2022

MnFish1 said:
A couple questions - when you bought the fish how did it look (or - when it was in the bag - if you received it online) - how did it look?

Second - How does the Tang look - any signs of illness? Usually 'clamped fins' IME are due to 1) abnormal/poor water conditions (did you happen to match salinity, etc between the water in your tank and the bags)? OR 2) another gill disease - which has not yet manifested. Your ammonia of 0.8 - depending on the pH - could be a concern - did you happen to use any Prime - which is reported to cause problems. ? Any more information? If the Tang is unaffected (so far) - it somewhat mitigates against a systemic toxin. However. - some fish are more or less susceptible

Fill looked fine in the bag. I was actually quite impressed with how large the bags were that they came in. Lots of water. I've ordered plenty of fish online and these two appeared to be within my normal experience.

Tang is stressed out too. It's got that camo stressed look to it most of the time when I am near. I can watch him from afar and it'll swim around pecking on the glass, which I assume it is looking for food. If I am watching, the tang will not eat.

I drip acclimated the bags to match salinity. I have not used any prime or related product. I'm not checking pH on the QT. I am hesitant to completely accept the 0.08 ppm ammonia reading at face value. Just seems extremely high for two days and two fish. Other than stress, the tang seems fine. I've had plenty of shy tangs before and this simply appears to be just that but I won't rule out the possibility that it is experience more than just stress.

Manny’s Reef · Oct 21, 2022

Couldn't take a picture this morning as fish was sleeping and hiding.

Jay Hemdal · Oct 21, 2022

Can you post a short video under white lights? A video is worth 1000 words (grin).

Jay

Manny’s Reef · Oct 21, 2022

Jay Hemdal said:
Can you post a short video under white lights? A video is worth 1000 words (grin).

Jay

I can but it will have to wait until tonight.

Jay Hemdal · Oct 21, 2022

Manny’s Reef said:
Trying to identify what may be causing the clamped fins on my newly acquired juvenile emperor angel.

I received him and and a blonde naso tang on Tuesday (today is Friday.) They both went straight into QT with 0 copper. I observed them for about 8 hours before adding copper. Day 1 I raised copper using cupramine to .11. Day 2 I raised copper to .23. I'm using the Hanna checker to test copper. QT is well aerated. Anyhow, emperor starting looking like it was treading water. It was struggling to maintain itself afloat b/c two of its fins were not moving. I'm not familiar with the anatomical name of the fins but if a fish had a chest, these fins would be on the chest. Had to run a 30 minute errand. Came home and it was laying on the glass, gasping. I immediately thought high ammonia.

I removed angel fish and placed in a sterile observation tank I had setup in case something like this happened. I tested ammonia using a Red Sea ammonia test kit. It read .08. Seemed incredibly high to me and I wondered if the cupramine was making it register higher than it really was, especially since these two fish are tiny and were only in the QT for 2 days. Not sure. QT is 10 gallons. Anyhow, fish recovered within minutes. Makes me believe that ammonia was at least part of the problem, if not all. There were some signs of red irritation on one side of the cheek area of the face. Otherwise, the fish has beautiful colors. Its markings are stunningly deep. However, its two fins still seem clamped. I'm trying to determine what may be causing the fin clamp. I wondering if it was a combination of shipping stress and the potentially high ammonia. If so, it may be just fine when I get home.

Is it possible for flukes to cause the clamped fins? I don't see any signs of flukes but I know that angels are more susceptible to flukes. I prefer not to do a freshwater dip because the stress he's already undergone. I'll dose this observation tank with prazi and when he is better conditioned, he'll go back to copper for 30 days.

For the record angel is about 2" and naso about 3". I did a 100% water change in the QT last night with cupramine at .33 before tang went back in. I was slowly increasing copper b/c of the angel. QT is being fed frozen mysis once a day. I'm using a very small amount. I have metro, prazi, and kanoplex all on hand.

Also I forgot to add, though I'm not a big fan of using the ammonia badge as they seem less accurate than the red sea test kit, I did go ahead and order some more. I usually stock a few but currently happen to be out. Should arrive tomorrow.

EDIT: I'm wondering if clamped fins might be a deceiving description. They don't look clamped to the body. They are outstretched and appear more to be stiff and frozen in place, rather than against the body.

Is the angel still eating?

Jay

Manny’s Reef · Oct 21, 2022

Jay Hemdal said:
Is the angel still eating?

Jay

So this is still rather recent. It ate frozen Mysis just fine yesterday. About an hour later it started kind of doing the treading water thing I described. 30 min later it was laying flat. So I removed and isolated it. I have not fed since then. It was however swimming around exploring the observation tank. It just wasn't moving those fins. I am tempted to assume it will eat just fine when its feeding time again. My tang on the other hand, that guy doesn't want to eat if I'm around. Different story though.

vetteguy53081 · Oct 21, 2022

Manny’s Reef said:
Trying to identify what may be causing the clamped fins on my newly acquired juvenile emperor angel.

I received him and and a blonde naso tang on Tuesday (today is Friday.) They both went straight into QT with 0 copper. I observed them for about 8 hours before adding copper. Day 1 I raised copper using cupramine to .11. Day 2 I raised copper to .23. I'm using the Hanna checker to test copper. QT is well aerated. Anyhow, emperor starting looking like it was treading water. It was struggling to maintain itself afloat b/c two of its fins were not moving. I'm not familiar with the anatomical name of the fins but if a fish had a chest, these fins would be on the chest. Had to run a 30 minute errand. Came home and it was laying on the glass, gasping. I immediately thought high ammonia.

I removed angel fish and placed in a sterile observation tank I had setup in case something like this happened. I tested ammonia using a Red Sea ammonia test kit. It read .08. Seemed incredibly high to me and I wondered if the cupramine was making it register higher than it really was, especially since these two fish are tiny and were only in the QT for 2 days. Not sure. QT is 10 gallons. Anyhow, fish recovered within minutes. Makes me believe that ammonia was at least part of the problem, if not all. There were some signs of red irritation on one side of the cheek area of the face. Otherwise, the fish has beautiful colors. Its markings are stunningly deep. However, its two fins still seem clamped. I'm trying to determine what may be causing the fin clamp. I wondering if it was a combination of shipping stress and the potentially high ammonia. If so, it may be just fine when I get home.

Is it possible for flukes to cause the clamped fins? I don't see any signs of flukes but I know that angels are more susceptible to flukes. I prefer not to do a freshwater dip because the stress he's already undergone. I'll dose this observation tank with prazi and when he is better conditioned, he'll go back to copper for 30 days.

For the record angel is about 2" and naso about 3". I did a 100% water change in the QT last night with cupramine at .33 before tang went back in. I was slowly increasing copper b/c of the angel. QT is being fed frozen mysis once a day. I'm using a very small amount. I have metro, prazi, and kanoplex all on hand.

Also I forgot to add, though I'm not a big fan of using the ammonia badge as they seem less accurate than the red sea test kit, I did go ahead and order some more. I usually stock a few but currently happen to be out. Should arrive tomorrow.

EDIT: I'm wondering if clamped fins might be a deceiving description. They don't look clamped to the body. They are outstretched and appear more to be stiff and frozen in place, rather than against the body.

Can be a post shipping issue as often fish in shipped bags produce carbon dioxide and ammonia. The carbon dioxide lowers the pH of the water in the bag, which in turn makes the ammonia non-toxic to the fish. When you acclimate them, if not done just right . . . . you move the carbon dioxide faster than you are diluting the ammonia which raises the pH of the water in the bag, and can produce residual ammonia which is very toxic to the fish.
The clamped fins however may indicate flukes ( dont bank on this until pics/video UNDER WHITE lighting posted). Signs of flukes generally are fish swimming near the water surface, hiding in the corner of tank or behind rocks, loss of appetite, shaking its head, flashing/darting, develop clamped fins, , or scratching against objects.

Manny’s Reef · Oct 22, 2022

Angel is well. He’s actively swimming around the observation tank as if nothing had happened. I’m going to finish the tangs QT process then I’ll put this guy into copper.