Clarification for Spectrum/Growth etc

[Hellic]

So I think i have a decent hold on spectrum and par etc... it is my understanding that best coral growth comes from white light and best coloration (fluorescing of the coral) comes from blue light.

Where i get confused is if i use white (6500k) light to grow the corals vs blue light (14000k) to grow the corals. Will a coral that is grown under 6500k light still have the same fluorescence and color if placed back under 14000k light vs a coral that is grown entirely under a 14000k light.

 

[Spare time]

Blues/violets are the main growing channel for corals. Blue is basically more efficient for photosynthesis and is the preferred spectrum for Chlorophyll and many (I think most) other photopigments. White and all the other options are more personally preference and imo for the fish's eyes. Some people prefer lots of white to get a daylight look which is fine.


Corals may change colors under different lights over time, but the coral "pop" doesn't dissappear if grown under a more white spectrum and then moved to a more blue

 

[jda]

You are getting there, but not completely. Color rendering and illumination is different.

14k is a full spectrum light. 20k is also a full spectrum light. Both just look a bit bluer to our human eyes. Blue-only is really when people only use blue LEDs in the mid 400 to 500 nm range... like blue only LED strips.

A full spectrum will grow stuff the best and render the best color in coral - actual color. Whiter light might not pop all of the colors that you want to see, but this depends on the coral. More blue light can do this, but it is not always necessary since well kept corals can pop with whiter light. There are many proteins, pigments, sunscreen pigments, etc. that do not excite or are not efficient with just blue. Light outside of the visible range is also important - UV light has a LOT of energy and most pigments can use it while IR is needed to move energy from PSII to PSI so that the coral can utilize it... which means that you can get more energy to your coral when IR is in the house.

I grow some corals in my fuge under 6500k T5s and they look OK under that light - some look awesome, most are good and some are just blah. If you move tanks and put them under blue-only LEDs with RB XHOs they look better than the same coral just grown under a blue spectrum. In a heavy blue tank, those same corals will lose some color over time. There are examples of this with some mushrooms in my re-build thread.

I use 14k phoenix MH bulbs over my tanks. These are full spectrum but also really pop. They need no supplementation to grow nor look good. If I was using T5, I would use a few Blue Plus, a few Coral Plus, a few 6500k and a few True Actinic. This would also grow and illuminate well. If somebody forced me to use LEDs, I would likely mount them higher, run 100% on all channels for most of the day and then maybe blue them up a bit when I wanted to view the tank later in the day.

If you want to see what full spectrum light from LED does to corals, go and find thermans threads - he has a build thread and for sale thread and he is 100% on all channels, or near it. Find me a heavy blue tank that looks like his.

 

[Bpb]

@jda explained it fully and accurately.

I’ll simply echo a summarized version in my own words

Full spectrum light is better for growth.

Full spectrum light contains the same blue wavelengths that “blue only” does, as well as many many more, which contribute to pigment production for various biological functions.

Full spectrum or “white” light is not lacking the blue element. It’s like the difference between eating pure sugar vs a cake. Or drinking flavorless whey protein vs eating a steak. Yes. Blue only will grow corals, but not as well.

Blue will display visual fluorescence. The whiter it gets, the less corals will fluoresce, and the more the reflective pigments will display. Like looking at a black light poster under regular daylight vs a black light. One isn’t better. Just different. Your preference will determine how you like to view it

 

[Hellic]

Thanks everyone for the responses. That makes a lot of sense. So in terms of leds, we have 6 channels. White, blue, dark blue, violet, red, & green. When we ramp up the blues, violet, with a little red and green we are sort of simulating a spectrum, correct? Because these are only peaks of specific colors. But since its not actually full spectrum, it wouldn't grow corals as efficiently as the white channel that is full spectrum?

 

[jda]

So much of this depends on the diodes and not the names. This is what can make led so hard to tune in since no two units are the same. I might try some of all of those other channels in small increments, but I am no pro with this since I don't use them.

 

[Hellic]

Honestly, LED is a really confusing lighting. I love the appearance of them, but I'm contemplating supplementing with a dual bulb T5 fixture and running an ati aquablue special/blue+ combo. With LED I feel like any change could mess something up without using a spectrometer or par meter to verify. Also I'm not trying to grow SPS either. Mainly lps/softies.

 

[Bpb]

More information is helpful. What make/model led. Tank footprint and height. How high you’re hanging them, ect

 

[Hellic]

I have an 85 watt dual puck black box over a 40 breeder. (I know, I know). It's just what I could afford when setting up the tank and seemed reasonably powerful enough for lps/softies. The brand is Smatfarm. Its about 20 inches from the sandbed. I have been running them using the Radeon AB+ configuration, just to have a somewhat close configuration on the right spectrum. But i do understand that these are not the same lights and would function differently in intensity and spectrum at the same settings.

 

[outhouse]

Honestly, LED is a really confusing lighting.

Dude, those are some good black boxs that have all the spectrum you need. you dont need to supplement your lights.

So white lights do not grow coral well, some argue they are not needed. Most BB users run their white channel at 1% and see amazing growth. I ran my whites at 1% for the last 4 months and growth was off the hook.

The Blue lights are responsible for most of your growth, purple and violet simulate UV and are needed as well for more growth. Your eyes dont really pick up uv below 400 even though many leds say they are 385, that is as low as you want to go. Below that causes decay and sunburn.

So use your blues and violets for growth, and add the white so you dont have a windex looking blue tank. Many to most people prefer the 14k or 20k look, meaning 20k lots of blue and a little white, and 14k having more white

 

[outhouse]

But i do understand that these are not the same lights and would function differently in intensity and spectrum at the same settings.

BB are known to be too strong, and they overdrive their 3w led chips so they can get similar par as expensive lights.

Biggest mistake people make is turning intensity up too much, and at 70% I fried everything in a 210G tank 30" deep.


You dont need to get over 25% to 30% max for a 40g tank. With leds less is more.

Your lucky you have 0-100% ramping features as well as adjustable full spectrum. For my BB i had to buy supplemental UV lighting. You already have it.

 

[Hellic]

Yeah don't get me wrong. This black box is pretty legit for what it is. Has a built in controller, a remote control, ramping features, moon lighting, etc. And had an excellent price tag for all that you do get with the light. 2 of them could probably grow sps. Problem is that I just haven't seen any growth. My ricordea and leather are just as small as when i first got them. Albeit, I've heard that shrooms grow slowly anyway. I just expected a bit more growth. So that made me question whether or not I could increase my growth by ramping up my whites a bit more, or by using a white spectrum during the day, and then switching to blues at night. Or just leave it on the AB+ schedule like I have been doing.

 

[outhouse]

Turning them way down will increase growth. They are too strong. I had terrible growth for 5 years with leds BB to be exact. mine are ocean revives, same electronics and led chips as viparspectra. Turning my lights down to 12% increased growth in massive amounts. thats in a 210g tank. So the pic I will share with you was 6 months growth with blues at 8% and whites at 1% for 6 months. YOU want growth? turn them down but keep your blues and purples up and all other colors and whites down but not off

 

[Hellic]

Turning them way down will increase growth. They are too strong. I had terrible growth for 5 years with leds BB to be exact. mine are ocean revives, same electronics and led chips as viparspectra. Turning my lights down to 12% increased growth in massive amounts. thats in a 210g tank. So the pic I will share with you was 6 months growth with blues at 8% and whites at 1% for 6 months. YOU want growth? turn them down but keep your blues and purples up and all other colors and whites down but not off

Nice. Do you have a before picture?

 

[Bpb]

Turning things up or down to arbitrary numbers is Ill-advised with leds. Best to use a par meter to dial in your max intensity. Some get lucky and nail it with a guess. Others torch their tanks for years and wonder what the problem is. Too much white is never the problem. Too much overall intensity is the problem. Reducing only whites and seeing a positive response isn’t due to removing valuable wavelengths from the table. The positive response was pulling the corals out of photoinhibition

 

[outhouse]

Nice. Do you have a before picture?

Yes and its sad, lights were 70 and 80% intensity for 5 years, of only decay. almost quit

 

[outhouse]

Turning things up or down to arbitrary numbers is Ill-advised with leds. Best to use a par meter to dial in your max intensity. Some get lucky and nail it with a guess. Others torch their tanks for years and wonder what the problem is. Too much white is never the problem. Too much overall intensity is the problem. Reducing only whites and seeing a positive response isn’t due to removing valuable wavelengths from the table. The positive response was pulling the corals out of photoinhibition

No one here just turned down the white lights. Just letting him know most BB users over power their tanks, and most run their whites at 1 or 2 % which gives the tank a 14k to 20K look. at 12% intensity on my white channel it looks like a 12k tank. AS far as par meters, most are junk, and offer varied results. Par does notr grow coral it is a measurment, and a measurement that varies on which meter is used and testing methods that vary.

My whole point is that with leds, is that less is more. Fact is coral can only absorb so much light during a day, add to that different tanks have different demands and different needs, making any one given par number a joke.

NOW to clarify and stay in context, if I had an SPS only tank, I probably would measure, but take said readings with a grain of salt.

 

[Hellic]

Turning things up or down to arbitrary numbers is Ill-advised with leds. Best to use a par meter to dial in your max intensity. Some get lucky and nail it with a guess. Others torch their tanks for years and wonder what the problem is. Too much white is never the problem. Too much overall intensity is the problem. Reducing only whites and seeing a positive response isn’t due to removing valuable wavelengths from the table. The positive response was pulling the corals out of photoinhibition

I've been heavily considering a par meter to get a better understanding of the lights. I feel it may be the only real way of knowing how intense the lights are and if they measure up to the corals needs or if the light is currently overpowering the corals. Im still waiting on BRS to notify me when one comes in stock for rental

 

[Bpb]

I've been heavily considering a par meter to get a better understanding of the lights. I feel it may be the only real way of knowing how intense the lights are and if they measure up to the corals needs or if the light is currently overpowering the corals. Im still waiting on BRS to notify me when one comes in stock for rental

Reef lighting application is simpler than many will lead on.

Rent apogee MQ 510

Find whatever setting you find visually pleasing on your lights.

Use said MQ510 to adjust your intensity in appropriate ratios to maintain that aesthetic you like for a daylight peak of 4-8 hours.

For a softy/lps dominant tank, best results will usually come at 150 par max. Most thriving with much less

For an sps dominant tank 250-350 par is a safe goal.

Utilize a ramp up and down feature to extend your photoperiod to a max of 12 hours.

Doesn’t need to be any more complicated than that.

Some notes, try to avoid running any other channel higher than your blues. As in avoid running 100% whites but 60% blues for any length of time outside of taking photographs. It’s not that it won’t work if you are in the correct intensity range, it just may not be the most efficient use of the light fixture.

If running a mixed tank, just have an idea of where your higher and lower light areas are.

For my tank personally, the goal is to be acropora dominant. I have a large flat shelf like rock structure spanning the length of the tank which enjoys a 250-350 par range throughout. On the sandbed I am between 50-150 par. Which is perfect for the zoas and euphyllia.

At the end of the day. Set your lights and avoid adjusting them once they’re dialed in a comfortable range. Don’t obsess over absolute values, but just try to stay in ranges. Corals are adaptable to a point. Lights should not be a center of focus once they’re set. From then on, ignore them and best to obsess over water quality and stability than second guessing your lighting.

 

[Hellic]

Thanks for everyones input! I really appreciate it. Happy Holidays!