Clarify Mixed Messages

[CharlieAsh]

I took over care of a tank about a year and a half ago and I *thought* I had good information to proceed with, until my fish store went concierge only and I had to get a new fish store.

I can't seem to keep the salinity up since we had a cyano bloom. We eventually had to use ChemiClean to get rid of it and I think I see some creeping back into the tank. I keep battling high phosphates and nitrates - which finally lowered with the last partial water change, which also had the salinity in the center of the "acceptable" range on my gauge. A week later and I am at the bottom of the acceptable range again, 1.18.
***I test a minimum of 3 times with simpler tools to get a consistent reading, and each time I take it to the store to use their equipment the readings match. I am not concerned about the validity of testing at this time.

I was originally told that you never have to refill the tank with salt because it doesn't evaporate, so you only top off with fresh. I then had multiple conversations with people who clearly thought I was an idiot for thinking that because obviously only fresh would dilute the tank over timek. THEN I go into the store this last time and the associate rolled his eyes when I said I am having a difficult time with salinity. He ganged up with my friend who originally told me fresh only.

1) If so many people think that salt doesn't leech from a tank, why am I struggling
2) Any suggestions to handle the salt levels of the tank... or the fish store employees?

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

Well some of the employees are just ****** bags to roll their eyes about an honest question...as a retail employee they shouldn't be looking down on anyone regardless...

 

[Soren]

I took over care of a tank about a year and a half ago and I *thought* I had good information to proceed with, until my fish store went concierge only and I had to get a new fish store.

I can't seem to keep the salinity up since we had a cyano bloom. We eventually had to use ChemiClean to get rid of it and I think I see some creeping back into the tank. I keep battling high phosphates and nitrates - which finally lowered with the last partial water change, which also had the salinity in the center of the "acceptable" range on my gauge. A week later and I am at the bottom of the acceptable range again, 1.18.

I was originally told that you never have to refill the tank with salt because it doesn't evaporate, so you only top off with fresh. I then had multiple conversations with people who clearly thought I was an idiot for thinking that because obviously only fresh would dilute the tank over timek. THEN I go into the store this last time and the associate rolled his eyes when I said I am having a difficult time with salinity. He ganged up with my friend who originally told me fresh only.

1) If so many people think that salt doesn't leech from a tank, why am I struggling
2) Any suggestions to handle the salt levels of the tank... or the fish store employees?

Do you see any spots on the top or sides outside the tank where there are salt deposits?
It is true that salt does not evaporate, so evaporation is replaced with fresh water only. Salt is typically lost through "salt creep", where salt deposits are left after splash or trickle-leak water evaporate outside the tank water. Salt will also be lost in any operation where water is removed from the tank, such as running a foam fractionator/protein skimmer and (obviously) water changes or sand-bed-cleaning siphon water.

Can you share any pictures? What is the tank volume? What equipment are you running?

 

[J1a]

Some salt water may be skimmed out, or taken out of the aquarium when we replace fleece or other chemical media.

On the other hand, depending on your instrument and calibration, salinity measurement can often be inaccurate.

 

[hotbiscuits84]

Salt shouldn’t be leaching out of the tank unless you have significant splashing or leaking of water out of your tank. But if you are only experiencing water loss through evaporation, then replace evaporation with freshwater only. If you want to confirm with your own eyes, warm up saltwater in a pot and evaporate on the stove. Only salt will be left.

How are you measuring your salinity? Swing arm hydrometers can be inaccurate. Have you tried a refractometer?

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

I would say there is something wrong, salinity is the easiest thing to keep stable with zero effort, it should never change. Maybe you have too much splash, or your skimmer is pulling wet skimate?

 

[Aqua Man]

1) If so many people think that salt doesn't leech from a tank, why am I struggling

It’s impossible for salt to evaporate, it’s a solid not a liquid.

What are u using to measure salinity? Hopefully a calibrated refractometer.

Are you topping off to acertain mark on your tank? If not, then it’s possible to add too much fresh water and drop salinity.

If you remove saltwater, saltwater has to be replaced. To the same level as before. Like a water change or skim cup.

evaporation can only increase salinity

 

[CharlieAsh]

Some salt water may be skimmed out, or taken out of the aquarium when we replace fleece or other chemical media.

On the other hand, depending on your instrument and calibration, salinity measurement can often be inaccurate.

I generally take 3 measurements to ensure agreement and I have it tested at the store when I get water. The store test has always matched my home test if I have taken multiple readings.

 

[CharlieAsh]

It’s impossible for salt to evaporate, it’s a solid not a liquid.

What are u using to measure salinity? Hopefully a calibrated refractometer.

Are you topping off to acertain mark on your tank? If not, then it’s possible to add too much fresh water and drop salinity.

If you remove saltwater, saltwater has to be replaced. To the same level as before. Like a water change or skim cup.

evaporation can only increase salinity

Yes, I fill to a certain mark on my tank. And I replace with a balance of salt and fresh.

I both test my own salinity and take it to the store to be tested. Both tests agree that salt continues to drop.

 

[Smite]

As pointed out above, if running a skimmer then you may be running it too "wet". Essentially removing too much saltwater with skimmate and then it's getting top with fresh water lowering the SG over a few days. Or there's a leak but I think it would be pretty noticeable.

What is the starting point aka center of acceptable - it's value? I'm curious how many points you're dropping. Hydrometer or refractormeter?

 

[CharlieAsh]

I would say there is something wrong, salinity is the easiest thing to keep stable with zero effort, it should never change. Maybe you have too much splash, or your skimmer is pulling wet skimate?

What is that second thing you mentioned?

 

[CharlieAsh]

As pointed out above, if running a skimmer then you may be running it too "wet". Essentially removing too much saltwater with skimmate and then it's getting top with fresh water lowering the SG over a few days. Or there's a leak but I think it would be pretty noticeable.

What is the starting point aka center of acceptable - it's value? I'm curious how many points you're dropping. Hydrometer or refractormeter?

I have filter socks and a protein skimmer. One of them could be the culprit?

 

[monkeyCmonkeyDo]

What is your measuring tool?
What are you using?
Yes only top off with fresh water. Top off with saltwater if you need to raise salinity.
If your skimmer is taking out salt than your skimming too wet ppl.
D

 

[CharlieAsh]

I would say there is something wrong, salinity is the easiest thing to keep stable with zero effort, it should never change. Maybe you have too much splash, or your skimmer is pulling wet skimate?

That was my thought. I just can't figure out the problem

 

[Airwolf]

Do you do frequent nutrient testing (KH, Nitrate, Calcium, Mg etc.)? How much water to you take out to do your testing?

Here is where I am going with this, lets say you take a 16-20oz container every other day to test the water and do not replace it with anything. If you have an ATO or top off manually, that could get replaced with RODI water. Depending on how often you test, how much water you pull out and how much volume is in your tank, this could be something being overlooked.

Just a thought.....

 

[LeftyReefer]

What size is your tank?

Are you sure there aren't any un-noticed leaks?

 

[Soren]

I have filter socks and a protein skimmer. One of them could be the culprit?

How wet is the collection from the skimmer? If it is "wet" or high in water content rather than just concentrated waste and your tank is relatively small (less than 50 gallons), you could be removing enough salt with the skimmer to drop salinity, though this still should be fairly slow.

I think you should also check for leaks or for salt runs/deposits on and around your tank to check for other potential saltwater losses.

 

[Smite]

share a picture of the inside of your cabinet. Maybe we can spot something.
Skimmer if too wet then yes. Could be removing saltwater. Then you are topping off and lowering salinity.
Filter socks could play a roll pending sock to sump size. If the get clogged enough they can slow water flow threw the sump and cause you to top off more than needed. But I doubt that.

 

[Smite]

Yes, I fill to a certain mark on my tank. And I replace with a balance of salt and fresh.

I both test my own salinity and take it to the store to be tested. Both tests agree that salt continues to drop.

When you say tank. Are you referring to the return chamber of your sump? Or return chamber of the back section? (if all in one style tank)

 

[Smite]

Just want to make sure you’re not judging top off by your display water line but by which section holds your return pump.