I'm torn between having a clean up crew or not to have a cleanup crew in my mixed reef tank that is about 2 years old now (80 gallon fijicube). I probably work on my tank too much and have gyres with a good amount of water movement, but spend a lot of time blowing algae off the rocks and substrate at times. My nitrates did get high above 20 ppm (3 weeks ago) and now around 5 ppm or just below. po4 consistently around .05-.10 ppm. Will a clean up crew make my life easier or will I have tiny snails crawling all over, getting in overflow etc causing more annoyance than assistance? I see so many tanks online that do not SEEM to have cleanup crews unless they just come out at night. Opinions/Thoughts on both sides of having a clean up crew or not having one is appreciated.
Cleaner Crew or No Cleaner Crew?
- Thread starter Mppp
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JNalley
Valuable Member
I love my cleanup crew, and none of them ever cause a problem for me. In fact, they're some of the most interesting critters in my entire tank... watching blue-legged hermit crabs spartan each other for a shell is hilarious (buy empty shells so this doesn't happen frequently). My sand-sifting starfish makes weekly appearances. My Japanese Snapping Shrimp makes popping sounds so I know he's there, and when he's out looks like a red lobster. I am in the camp of "get a cleanup crew!"
Thanks for the response it sounds like an awesome tank. I probably would go snails only though as I don't want any issues to arise for my one and only pistol shrimp/goby duo from those hermit crabs and snapping shrimp. Where did you buy your cleanup crew if I may ask? I've looked at reefcleaners.org and read mostly good reviews from folks on here?
Mine come out at night. Trochus snails are a favorite as they can flip themselves over. Nerites will crawl out if you don't have a lid.
Mr Fishface
Valuable Member
I loved when I got to see my conch. He was a sneaky one. My favorite part of having snails was seeing the trails they left in the algae. I still needed to use a glass magnet to clean it but it always made me smile to see it.
fryman
Active Member
So...you've had a reef tank 2 years and are just now wondering if you need a cuc? Hmm.
Well, I expect you already know that you don't "need" a cuc. In particular crabs are really not required, but I like them because they are interesting. Yes they will fight and may kill snails. Still worth it, imho.
In my experience without a cuc something takes over anyway- probably amphipods. Gammarid find their way into every tank I've ever had and the population will grow to whatever level allowed by left over food. For algae control I think having snails and/or urchins make things easier to keep rocks clean, but now that I think about it I've never actually tried without ANY. I have found that we really don't need as big a cuc as I was initially told.
Do you really have no snails or urchins at all? That's unusual. Do you have any herbivorous fish like tangs or foxface or blenny?
davidcalgary29
2500 Club Member
My tanks wouldn't be the same without the urchins! And the keyhole limpets! I spend half my time playing "Where's Waldo?" as I search for the fire urchin before sticking my (gloved) hand in the tank for routine maintenance...
If you're lucky! Trochus snails tend to be the most prolific breeders, but eggs and baby snails are lunchables for many tank inhabitants, and survival to breeding age isn't common.
damsels are not mean
Valuable Member
As always, the first solution is to solve nutrient issues. Algae will grow when there's too much nitrates or phosphates. A reading of 0 on a test kit doesn't mean the system doesn't have any. It's just that your tank's microfauna are efficiently processing available material. Any tank with any corals and LR in it has a cleanup crew of sorts. Bugs, worms, asterina stars, bacteria. All these things help process organic matter just as their terrestrial cousins do. Adding a CUC helps to provide somewhere for extra food to end up rather than it going directly through the nitrogen pipeline and into your algae problems. They can react dynamically to changing conditions (like that nutrient spike you had) in a way you can't (or at least shouldn't if you want to stay sane) A team of snails will absolutely help keep remaining algae at bay. I think the CUC gets a bad rap as I think most "cleaner packages" are near to scams since vendors want to move product. Many in the reef hobby misunderstand the value of a CUC in its proper usecase and associate it with being a magic wand to fix algae.
Now here's my advice if you want to get a CUC:
IMO you should pick one or two snail species of each job:
surface grazers: turbos(for bigger tanks), astraeas(these can't flip, not a fan!), ninja stars(A type of astraea that can flip itself and looks cool), trochus(best if you can find/afford them)
generalists: ceriths (maybe some large and some dwarf ceriths) and dove snails
sand-stirrers/bottom dwellers: nassarius(will also help forage for uneaten food) and conches(I'd say 1 max in that tank unless you get a lot of algae on the sand)
nerites are popular but I don't really like them. They attack the same surfaces as your grazers but aren't as efficient and the intertidal species will carpetsurf if you have an open tank. They are redundant and unnecessary. Buy more of the others instead. There's something to be said for biodiversity in your CUC, but there's only so many ways to eat algae off a rock.
shrimp are my "first line of defense". They will go where the fish wont, but are fast enough to get food before it starts to break down. Also, they're cool. Just about any of the popular ornamentals will do. Coral banded, cleaner, fire shrimp, etc. Also, they're cool and very peaceful except sometimes with conspecifics.
hermits will eat most anything. But I don't think they are very good at dealing with algae. At least not as good as snails and the ones I will list below. They are opportunists and go where their claws are most efficiently used. They will likely attack your snails, though, no matter how hard you try to provide shells. This is especially true if you get too many and they eat the available food supply to the point of starvation. IME the scarlet hermits are the longest lived, most peaceful, and most herbivorous of the hermit species. That said, get hermits because you think they are cool, not because you think they will solve your hair algae issues.
emerald, sally lightfoot, and other larger crabs: I say don't bother unless you have bubble algae (emerald crabs eat that). They are not going to add much otherwise to your cleanup crew and may be aggressive towards fish, inverts, and corals. LFS like to sell them in "cleaner packs" probably because they are cool looking and cheap as heck.
Also, you can supplement those jobs with some cool ones like:
chitons and limpets: These guys look cool and do a job much like the grazers. They are usually slower and less efficient but more thorough. Another one where I say get it because it's cool and not as the ideal algae attacker.
sea cucumbers: They eat dirty sand and poop it out pearly white. Maybe the most effective sand stirrer in the hobby, but can be harder to keep alive if you don't have a lot of substrate and nutrient inputs and might be toxic if stressed.
urchins: top-tier grazers, they may also eat coralline algae you should know. Really cheap as well.
brittle stars: great sand-stirrers and foragers and a cool conversation piece when you rarely see them.
sea hares: these will pretty much eradicate hair algae but like the cucumbers are hard to keep alive in smaller tanks because they are just too efficient. These also often get sucked into overflows and powerheads.
lettuce slugs: Like the sea hare but more extreme. Probably the best algae killer on this list but at the cost of a low survival rate. Similar to the hares they get sucked into powerheads easily and they usually eat the algae faster than it grows causing them to run out of food. They will incorporate the algae's chlorophyll into their tissue but this does not seem to be enough for most people who keep them.
Most vendors and LFS want to sell you a gazillion snails per 10 gallons or whatever. I'd start small and add if they don't make any dent in the algae. My first CUC was the one my LFS sold me on and it lasted maybe a year before most of it was dead. Second time I bought way less than that (maybe 1 critter per gallon or less, with many being smaller snails) and they both did a better job and lived longer. A couple scarlet hermits lived for like 6 years out of that batch. Remember it's easy to add more but if they starve themselves out they will crash!
Now here's my advice if you want to get a CUC:
IMO you should pick one or two snail species of each job:
surface grazers: turbos(for bigger tanks), astraeas(these can't flip, not a fan!), ninja stars(A type of astraea that can flip itself and looks cool), trochus(best if you can find/afford them)
generalists: ceriths (maybe some large and some dwarf ceriths) and dove snails
sand-stirrers/bottom dwellers: nassarius(will also help forage for uneaten food) and conches(I'd say 1 max in that tank unless you get a lot of algae on the sand)
nerites are popular but I don't really like them. They attack the same surfaces as your grazers but aren't as efficient and the intertidal species will carpetsurf if you have an open tank. They are redundant and unnecessary. Buy more of the others instead. There's something to be said for biodiversity in your CUC, but there's only so many ways to eat algae off a rock.
shrimp are my "first line of defense". They will go where the fish wont, but are fast enough to get food before it starts to break down. Also, they're cool. Just about any of the popular ornamentals will do. Coral banded, cleaner, fire shrimp, etc. Also, they're cool and very peaceful except sometimes with conspecifics.
hermits will eat most anything. But I don't think they are very good at dealing with algae. At least not as good as snails and the ones I will list below. They are opportunists and go where their claws are most efficiently used. They will likely attack your snails, though, no matter how hard you try to provide shells. This is especially true if you get too many and they eat the available food supply to the point of starvation. IME the scarlet hermits are the longest lived, most peaceful, and most herbivorous of the hermit species. That said, get hermits because you think they are cool, not because you think they will solve your hair algae issues.
emerald, sally lightfoot, and other larger crabs: I say don't bother unless you have bubble algae (emerald crabs eat that). They are not going to add much otherwise to your cleanup crew and may be aggressive towards fish, inverts, and corals. LFS like to sell them in "cleaner packs" probably because they are cool looking and cheap as heck.
Also, you can supplement those jobs with some cool ones like:
chitons and limpets: These guys look cool and do a job much like the grazers. They are usually slower and less efficient but more thorough. Another one where I say get it because it's cool and not as the ideal algae attacker.
sea cucumbers: They eat dirty sand and poop it out pearly white. Maybe the most effective sand stirrer in the hobby, but can be harder to keep alive if you don't have a lot of substrate and nutrient inputs and might be toxic if stressed.
urchins: top-tier grazers, they may also eat coralline algae you should know. Really cheap as well.
brittle stars: great sand-stirrers and foragers and a cool conversation piece when you rarely see them.
sea hares: these will pretty much eradicate hair algae but like the cucumbers are hard to keep alive in smaller tanks because they are just too efficient. These also often get sucked into overflows and powerheads.
lettuce slugs: Like the sea hare but more extreme. Probably the best algae killer on this list but at the cost of a low survival rate. Similar to the hares they get sucked into powerheads easily and they usually eat the algae faster than it grows causing them to run out of food. They will incorporate the algae's chlorophyll into their tissue but this does not seem to be enough for most people who keep them.
Most vendors and LFS want to sell you a gazillion snails per 10 gallons or whatever. I'd start small and add if they don't make any dent in the algae. My first CUC was the one my LFS sold me on and it lasted maybe a year before most of it was dead. Second time I bought way less than that (maybe 1 critter per gallon or less, with many being smaller snails) and they both did a better job and lived longer. A couple scarlet hermits lived for like 6 years out of that batch. Remember it's easy to add more but if they starve themselves out they will crash!
Mine only come out at night (nocturnal) or my fish will eat them.
JNalley
Valuable Member
I have a Japanese Snapping Shrimp (A Pistol Shrimp) and a Yellow Watchman Goby (My Goby is a bit timid for the Shrimp but I'm hoping he'll grow some balls (they've only been there together a couple of weeks or so, and both came in on the verge of death in 40-degree water because someone forgot to activate the heating pad in the box and that night was particularly cold). I also have more than 20 Hermits in the tank, AND it's only a 32.5 Gallon. People are super timid about how much CUC they have; I'm a proponent of biodiversity and microfauna though. There are some places that recommend 1-2 CUC members per gallon, I think I'm pretty close to 2.
20+ Assorted Hermits (Blue Legs, Electric Blues, Scarlets)
15 Astrea
10 Margarita
5 Nassarius
5 Cerith
2 Brittle Stars
1 Sand-Sifting Star
1 Japanese Pistol (as mentioned previously)
1 Anemone Crab
Unknown number of bristle worms (from ipsf)
Unknown number of spaghetti worms (ipsf)
A crap ton of pods (I have nothing that eats pods in my tank that I'm aware of and I've purchased a jar of 5280 pods, and 2 jars of EcoPods from algaebarn and amphipods from ipsf)
I will also probably add some limpets and other creatures as I see fit.
I also had an Emerald Crab but when he ran out of algae to eat he started at my Firework Clove Polyps, despite me feeding him meaty treats daily, and that wasn't happening, so I rehomed him.
All that being said, I overfeed and manage the nitrates and phosphates with NOPOX (Though I am putting Macro Algae in the display to hopefully stop this). Oh, it's an AIO so no sump (yet (I plan on doing a sump conversion over winter break)). I waited for the first algae/bacterial bloom and put most of them in, and added to them as I went along, since then I've had 0 problems and barely noticed the "ugly stage". This is also not my first tank, just my only tank currently and recently (coming back to the hobby after a 10-year hiatus).
As for places to buy, I've already mentioned 2, algaebarn and ipsf, but I've piece-mealed my CUC together from a bunch of different places as well as my LFS.
I am also considering adding some ornamental sponges :-D
Lyss
Valuable Member
I’m pro CUC as well. Can’t even imagine my tank w/o them! I did reef cleaners but did not do one of those packs (I am not pro CUC pack) — instead I chose only the critters I liked for the right fit for what I needed in my tank. Over 8 months I spread it across three orders to fill out and finalize my crew consisting of trochus, fl Ceriths, a couple scarlet hermits b/c they’re fun to watch, Nassarius, a strawberry conch, porcelain crabs, and a cleaner shrimp.
gbroadbridge
2500 Club Member
I have 25 trochus snails and 4 strombus snails (conches) in my 75g.
I also have a banded coral shrimp who eats whatever he finds at night.
I never see any algae on the rocks or substrate.
As far as I'm concerned the more CUC the better as they make my life easier.
I probably use a glass cleaner magnet once every two weeks.
Regards
Graham.
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Appreciate the input and thanks for specifying species you have. I think I’m sold on the benefits outweighing the negative aspects, which seem to be minimal if any besides my fears of them getting in overflow like a drain clog.
flashsmith
Valuable Member
A few hermits maybe 30 and 20 Tongan Nassarius snails then 6 large zebra turbos for algae. If you have larger fish with visible poops them Nassarius snails are a necessity at least for me. I have a few other assorted snails but they don't do much in a large system. The ones listed are must haves for me. My tang gang takes care of the rock work. I started out thinking I didn't need cuc. Changed my tune pretty quick on that one.
Only two cuc I would not go without for me is urchin as he just plows though any algae on rocks and work 10 times fast then any other cuc . the other is a fighting conch as 1 can replace 20 nassirus snails. One conch in my 125 keeps the sand prestine. I have other snails but more for looks. I don’t trust any crabs.
gbroadbridge
2500 Club Member
1 conch in a 125? Wow, I have 4 in a 75. Are you running Ultra low nutrients?
I could put in more but mine cruises the sand bed constantly and burrrows in a spots all over so continuously stirring the sand so felt no need to add more! I don’t run a ULN, pretty much opposite as I have been battling to keep nutrients down. Kinda big population of fish. Now that you ask maybe I will put in more. Lol. Maybe my conch is just very active. Lol. I will get him a friend or spouse.
