Cleaner Shrimp Copper resistance

[V_Sh]

Hi
I'm looking for your precious experiences with the resistance of Cleaner Shrimp to the amount of Cu2+

At what dosage do you guys find Lysmata amboinensis to stay alive for a long time and shed with no problem?

I'm considering a quarantine tank with cleaner shrimps and cleaner wrasse (hosts) to be kept with 0.1-0.2ppm chelated Cu2+ so the new fish will benefit from natural and chemical cleaners.

Thanks

 

[AetherealKnight]

Unfortunate they do not tolerate well with copper at all. I recommend that you quarantine them in a fishless tank before adding them into your display.

 

[V_Sh]

Unfortunate they do not tolerate well with copper at all. I recommend that you quarantine them in a fishless tank before adding them into your display.

appreciate your consideration

I mean keeping old cleaner wrasse and shrimp in the quarantine tank continuously and when adding new fish we may dose a small amount of copper also.

but as you said, shrimps may have critical problems with that small dose of copper too.


@Jay Hemdal pointed out the resistance of shrimps to small copper doses in another thread
Could you please help us, Sir?

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

appreciate your consideration

I mean keeping old cleaner wrasse and shrimp in the quarantine tank continuously and when adding new fish we may dose a small amount of copper also.

but as you said, shrimps may have critical problems with that small dose of copper too.


@Jay Hemdal pointed out the resistance of shrimps to small copper doses in another thread
Could you please help us, Sir?

Various hard shelled arthropod invertebrates have varying resistance to amine chelated copper (not ionic). I don’t have good numbers, because it varies by species, and to get these numbers would require dosing shrimp until they die.

Copper doesn’t work at partial doses, it needs to be maintained at a full dose for it to work….and that level is higher than shrimp can tolerate.

Never consider cleaner animals as a cure for disease, at best they can just limit infection levels of some species.

 

[V_Sh]

Various hard shelled arthropod invertebrates have varying resistance to amine chelated copper (not ionic). I don’t have good numbers, because it varies by species, and to get these numbers would require dosing shrimp until they die.

Copper doesn’t work at partial doses, it needs to be maintained at a full dose for it to work….and that level is higher than shrimp can tolerate.

Never consider cleaner animals as a cure for disease, at best they can just limit infection levels of some species.

Thank you so much for sharing your experience

I do agree with you but also in my experience one of the best treatments for chronic Lymphocystis is a cleaner shrimp. I've tried couple of times
But still I agree with you mostly

And I got a small question, what dose of Cu2+ you found effective with the least probability to poison fishes like Butterflies? What dose should we call a partial one?

Appreciate your consideration

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Thank you so much for sharing your experience

I do agree with you but also in my experience one of the best treatments for chronic Lymphocystis is a cleaner shrimp. I've tried couple of times
But still I agree with you mostly

And I got a small question, what dose of Cu2+ you found effective with the least probability to poison fishes like Butterflies? What dose should we call a partial one?

Appreciate your consideration

Ionic copper is the most toxic. It needs to be dosed at between 0.18 and 0.22 ppm. Cupramine is ionic copper with a stronger binder. It is less toxic and is dosed at around 0.50 ppm. Copper Power and Coppersafe are chelated coppers, bonded with an amine. They are dosed at around 2 to 2.5 ppm, with a good target being 2.25 ppm. Butterflyfish can handle that with no problem.

Anything below these target doses runs the risk of not working to cure the fish.

 

[Tamberav]

It would be cruel to keep a cleaner wrasse in copper long term and likely detrimental to their health. Quarantine one then move it to the observation tank or display and let them do the work there for Lymphocystis once fish move over to those tanks.

You can also do copper for only 14 days at therapeutic on your fish and then move them to a clean tank but be sure to observe the fish for 2-4 weeks (longer always being better) before moving to the display. This would allow you to get them in with a cleaner species sooner.

Copper is poison, shrimp won’t survive it at doses that we need to cure parasites and keeping a cleaner wrasse in copper longer than needed is just keeping them in poison and could eventually lead to organ failure.

 

[V_Sh]

Ionic copper is the most toxic. It needs to be dosed at between 0.18 and 0.22 ppm. Cupramine is ionic copper with a stronger binder. It is less toxic and is dosed at around 0.50 ppm. Copper Power and Coppersafe are chelated coppers, bonded with an amine. They are dosed at around 2 to 2.5 ppm, with a good target being 2.25 ppm. Butterflyfish can handle that with no problem.

Anything below these target doses runs the risk of not working to cure the fish.

That's so helpful thanks a lot I was thinking of half dose ir sth like that but it seems that's not a good idea

It would be cruel to keep a cleaner wrasse in copper long term and likely detrimental to their health. Quarantine one then move it to the observation tank or display and let them do the work there for Lymphocystis once fish move over to those tanks.

You can also do copper for only 14 days at therapeutic on your fish and then move them to a clean tank but be sure to observe the fish for 2-4 weeks (longer always being better) before moving to the display. This would allow you to get them in with a cleaner species sooner.

Copper is poison, shrimp won’t survive it at doses that we need to cure parasites and keeping a cleaner wrasse in copper longer than needed is just keeping them in poison and could eventually lead to organ failure.

Thanks for sharing

Yeah I agree with you

Also I've recently seen problems of cleaner wrasses when treated with chloroquine phosphate

It seems that they are really sensetive

@Jay Hemdal any problem you've seen in wrasses while treating with chloroquine?

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

That's so helpful thanks a lot I was thinking of half dose ir sth like that but it seems that's not a good idea


Thanks for sharing

Yeah I agree with you

Also I've recently seen problems of cleaner wrasses when treated with chloroquine phosphate

It seems that they are really sensetive

@Jay Hemdal any problem you've seen in wrasses while treating with chloroquine?

I stopped using chloroquine due to unexpected toxicity in wrasses and lionfish. I went back to coppersafe. The problem I ran into was that chloroquine at 12 mg/l wasn’t curing the fish, but when I went up to 20, we lost a number of fish.