Cleaner Wrasse sore

[bsharding1982]

I brought home a Cleaner Wrasse Saturday. He had been swimming around alright but mostly hiding when it saw me come over. Today he has been swimming in circles and has this redness on both sides. What can I do for him?

There are not any Ammonia or Nitrites in the tank. This is a 20 gallon QT I have it in.

 

[Idoc]

I would get him out of the tank ASAP and put into a quarantine for observation. That could be a scrape, but red sores are also a huge sign of Uronema. If it is Uronema, there's nothing that can be done at this point...but it would kill the fish in a couple of days, typically. Either way...get it out of your DT ASAP.

 

[bsharding1982]

I would get him out of the tank ASAP and put into a quarantine for observation. That could be a scrape, but red sores are also a huge sign of Uronema. If it is Uronema, there's nothing that can be done at this point...but it would kill the fish in a couple of days, typically. Either way...get it out of your DT ASAP.

Sorry, I just added to my post that this is in a QT. I also have a blue spot puffer I brought home with it.

Puffer is eating and acting well.

 

[bsharding1982]

I left for a few minutes and came back to it laying on the bottom. Can/should I treat the puffer?

 

[Sam816]

you need to put more details in your post. people need to know parameters, air flow, equipment being used etc before they can suggest anything.

I am leaning more towards ammonia burn due to a spike.

 

[bsharding1982]

I mentioned in the original post there aren't any Ammonia or Nitrites at all when testing. I have a Seachem badge I have been watching and with the API test.

It is in a 20 gallon about 3/4 full with a hob filter waterfalling down. I have small pieces of live rock I put in from my DT. I had a small powerhead in doing some surface agitation but it was too strong. I took it out since the water from the filter is falling about 4". It is a Aqua Culture filter from a 10 gallon kit from Walmart. You can take the filter out and I put in some Seachem Matrix.

I'll do periodic water changes this evening too.

 

[Idoc]

I left for a few minutes and came back to it laying on the bottom. Can/should I treat the puffer?

Highly suspect Uronema! This is a terrible one to get in your tank. There is no cure for this once the disease sores show up on the side of the fish...it's only time until they are dead, and that happens quickly just like this case. It doesn't look like ammonia burns....those cause red areas on the gills, not the body of the fish.

Thank goodness you have these in Quarantine! Uronema is impossible to clear out of a DT since going fallow has no effect on it. I am not sure if Puffers are susceptible to this, or if you are actually able to clear this disease from a fish that is highly suspected of having it before showing outward symptoms! Maybe @Jay Hemdal wouldn't mind chiming in on this one and give some guidance on how to proceed with the puffer.

Once you tear down that quarantine tank....definitely bleach the heck out of it and all equipment used in the tank!

 

[vetteguy53081]

Agree on Uronema and hate to say but both the badge and API test kits are the most unreliable test components in the industry notorious for false readings and disappointing many reefers with false results ( Just being up front)
You may have a higher Ammonia and nitrate reading than you realize.
I suggest taking a water sample to a trusted store that does Not use API test kits and have them test : Ammonia/nitrate/PH and salinity for you to verify your results.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

I mentioned in the original post there aren't any Ammonia or Nitrites at all when testing. I have a Seachem badge I have been watching and with the API test.

It is in a 20 gallon about 3/4 full with a hob filter waterfalling down. I have small pieces of live rock I put in from my DT. I had a small powerhead in doing some surface agitation but it was too strong. I took it out since the water from the filter is falling about 4". It is a Aqua Culture filter from a 10 gallon kit from Walmart. You can take the filter out and I put in some Seachem Matrix.

I'll do periodic water changes this evening too.

This could be Uronema. If it is, puffers are not susceptible, so at least that won't be an issue. Take a look at my article here on "red band disease". https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/uronema-red-band-disease-hemdal.788/

You will probably lose the wrasse, but the puffer won't die from this (doesn't mean it won't have other issues, they do get flukes fairly often for example).

One hint about cleaner wrasse - never buy one unless you can confirm it was collected in East Africa. The mortality rate for cleaner wrasse collected in Indonesia and the Philippines is way north of 60% in the first 45 days.

Jay

 

[vetteguy53081]

This could be Uronema. If it is, puffers are not susceptible, so at least that won't be an issue. Take a look at my article here on "red band disease". https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/uronema-red-band-disease-hemdal.788/

You will probably lose the wrasse, but the puffer won't die from this (doesn't mean it won't have other issues, they do get flukes fairly often for example).

One hint about cleaner wrasse - never buy one unless you can confirm it was collected in East Africa. The mortality rate for cleaner wrasse collected in Indonesia and the Philippines is way north of 60% in the first 45 days.

Jay

As a former store owner. . . How does one know its an East African species?
Ive had mine close to 8 years now.

 

[bsharding1982]

Highly suspect Uronema! This is a terrible one to get in your tank. There is no cure for this once the disease sores show up on the side of the fish...it's only time until they are dead, and that happens quickly just like this case. It doesn't look like ammonia burns....those cause red areas on the gills, not the body of the fish.

Thank goodness you have these in Quarantine! Uronema is impossible to clear out of a DT since going fallow has no effect on it. I am not sure if Puffers are susceptible to this, or if you are actually able to clear this disease from a fish that is highly suspected of having it before showing outward symptoms! Maybe @Jay Hemdal wouldn't mind chiming in on this one and give some guidance on how to proceed with the puffer.

Once you tear down that quarantine tank....definitely bleach the heck out of it and all equipment used in the tank!

Thank you. It did progress very rapidly. Looked very painful.

I learned the hard way back when I started to always qt. The LFS around here are a little suspect. I have a clown in another QT tank graduating to my DT in a couple days.

 

[bsharding1982]

Agree on Uronema and hate to say but both the badge and API test kits are the most unreliable test components in the industry notorious for false readings and disappointing many reefers with false results ( Just being up front)
You may have a higher Ammonia and nitrate reading than you realize.
I suggest taking a water sample to a trusted store that does Not use API test kits and have them test : Ammonia/nitrate/PH and salinity for you to verify your results.

I didn't realize about the API test kit until after I bought it. I've been comparing tests results with clean mixed water. Especially the ammonia always shows wrong.

When I was almost don't cycling my tank originally, I called the LFS to see if they tested water to confirm my results. They said yeah just bring in a sample. I brought it in and she pulled out a test strip and compared it to the bottle. I already knew not to buy livestock from there but that was the icing on the cake.

 

[bsharding1982]

This could be Uronema. If it is, puffers are not susceptible, so at least that won't be an issue. Take a look at my article here on "red band disease". https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/uronema-red-band-disease-hemdal.788/

You will probably lose the wrasse, but the puffer won't die from this (doesn't mean it won't have other issues, they do get flukes fairly often for example).

One hint about cleaner wrasse - never buy one unless you can confirm it was collected in East Africa. The mortality rate for cleaner wrasse collected in Indonesia and the Philippines is way north of 60% in the first 45 days.

Jay

Thank you. I went in with my son to get the puffer because he really wanted to get a star fish. They were out and I let him talk me in to a cleaner Wrasse. As I learned more about their difficulty I contemplated donating it back.

My plan was to observe the puffer in QT since I know they are sensitive. Is there anyway I should be dosing for him?

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Watch for white spot disease, flukes as well. A copper quarantine would be a good idea, followed by treatment with prazipro.
Is the cleaner wrasse eating?
Jay

 

[bsharding1982]

Watch for white spot disease, flukes as well. A copper quarantine would be a good idea, followed by treatment with prazipro.
Is the cleaner wrasse eating?
Jay

Great, thank you.

The wrasse wasn't interested in anything I offered it. Cyclops, formula 2, mysis, NLS pellets didn't even look at them. I noticed it was picking off copepods crawling on the glass. My DT has tons so some came over with the small live rock pieces I put in the tank.

However, he passed rather quickly. The red area quickly grew, then it started to struggle staying off the ground and finally was just lifeless. It happened very fast. Probably 4 hours between when I noticed it acting odd to when it passed.

It almost looked like internal bleeding.

I appreciate all the help.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Great, thank you.

The wrasse wasn't interested in anything I offered it. Cyclops, formula 2, mysis, NLS pellets didn't even look at them. I noticed it was picking off copepods crawling on the glass. My DT has tons so some came over with the small live rock pieces I put in the tank.

However, he passed rather quickly. The red area quickly grew, then it started to struggle staying off the ground and finally was just lifeless. It happened very fast. Probably 4 hours between when I noticed it acting odd to when it passed.

It almost looked like internal bleeding.

I appreciate all the help.

Sorry - without access to a microscope, I an still just about 100% sure that this was Uronema.

Jay