Closed loop help

[Zoaologist]

I’m getting ready to do a closed loop on a massive reef tank. This tank is 20’ long by 4’ wide. I drew up a diagram on the computer of how I’m thinking it should be, hopefully you can understand it. I wrote next to everything to tell what it is. If you see anything you would change please let me know and why. Thank you!

 

[jda]

That is not going to be enough outlets or pumps. First, the outlets should have loc line (never mind, see that now) and eductors on them for even more flow and the ability to point and direct it. You will probably need two pumps - one for each 10 foot section. Abyzz is probably going to end up being a toy and you might need something more like an AmpMaster or LifeGuard pro type stuff - look at the Ampmaster 9250 or 10500 - there is no way around a 1 HP, or more, pump here since you need the velocity and pressure. This setup would probably need 4 or 5 Abyzz pumps as CL pumps.

Also, consider an Oceans Motion 4 way on each unit with 4 outlets.

This is a really hard problem to solve. I would suggest that you look at people who have actually done it on a tank at least of 1000 gallons, which is not many.

 

[jda]

Also, have ball valves and unions on each side of the pump for easy disconnect and cleaning.

Edit: sorry for all of the fragments, but if you do get an AmpMaster, get the super-awesome saltwater seal and they should last a decade... I have had them last a decade with just the good seal, but they do start to leak after a long while.

 

[Zoaologist]

Thanks for the input. This is a second hand tank I’m trying to help a friend out with getting it up and going. It had a closed loop on it previously and the 3 2” bulkhead holes are already drilled. The tank is over 2,000 gallons with the sump it will be pushing 3,000 gallons. Really trying to make this work without having to drill more holes in the tank. I’m going to look into the other pumps now. I have all that for the loc lines it’s just not shown but I’ll be able to direct them and all that. I have unions at the pump but I understand where your saying it makes sense to be ball valves to service the pump so I’ll be changing that as well. Thanks a lot.

 

[jda]

If you cannot make too many modifications to this, then the best way to add additional flow is by using Tunze 6205, 6255 or 6305 on a Sea Sweep. They move a ton of water too and sweep back and forth that when you combine with the Tunze Controller with up/down flow patters can create a random type of thing. These are not practical on even 180 or 240g, but they are awesome on large tanks.

Good luck, this is no easy problem to solve.

 

[Zoaologist]

Would you say the check valves are in the correct spot? Or should I have ball valves up there and the check valves/valve in a different spot?

 

[jda]

You don't need check valve in closed loop... or at least I have never used one.

 

[Zoaologist]

Ok so I’ll switch the check valves with union ball valves also.

 

[jda]

Turn those things every once in a while. The last super huge tank that I had, I never moved the ball valves and they froze and broke when I put hardware on them to get leverage... it was MANY years of use, but it sucks because they are not cheap.

 

[Montiman]

Agree that there are no where near enough holes for a closed loop. When i did 125s with closed loops I would use 4-6 holes. I would use something like 10+ holes on a tank that size and likely multiple pumps for redundancy and random flow patterns.

 

[Zoaologist]

There’s going to be 16 of the largest gyre wave makers in this tank as well to push some water. Do you think the closed loop as it is can work to just add a little more flow towards the bottom of the aquarium since the gyres will be more higher up or do you think the only option is making more holes? If so where would you put the holes? Or should I just close up these 3 2” holes and not even do a closed loop? Thank you.

 

[Montiman]

With the Gyres it may be fine. I do feel that I would only use the closed loop if it were the exclusive water movement. biggest advantage of the closed loop IMO is the in tank aesthetics but 16 gyres kind of ruins that.

 

[mfinn]

I'm not sure if you just made the plumbing on the inside of the tank simple for drawing purposes, but on each of the bulkheads on the return side I would use a pvc 4 way fitting and on top of that use a tee. That gives you 4 outlets which can then be split into 8 total outlets.

 

[Zoaologist]

I'm not sure if you just made the plumbing on the inside of the tank simple for drawing purposes, but on each of the bulkheads on the return side I would use a pvc 4 way fitting and on top of that use a tee. That gives you 4 outlets which can then be split into 8 total outlets.

I made a new sketch up, is this what your talking about?

 

[mfinn]

I made a new sketch up, is this what your talking about?

Yeah, you can stack the 2 fittings on top of each other and it doesn't stick that high up into the tank. A couple well placed rocks hides them pretty easy.
Plus using black plumbing pipe also helps hide them.

Also when you design the suction, try and make it small fish and anemone proof.
Pipe with strainers and holes, then a box over that with slits and holes, etc.

 

[Zoaologist]

Thanks a lot for the input. I was planning on using a 2” bulkhead strainer for the drain on the closed loop. Should I make like a egg crate box around the strainer also? Or any other ideas? The strainer will be covered by live rock already also.

 

[mfinn]

Thanks a lot for the input. I was planning on using a 2” bulkhead strainer for the drain on the closed loop. Should I make like a egg crate box around the strainer also? Or any other ideas? The strainer will be covered by live rock already also.

Honestly, I would go smaller than egg crate, but I guess it also depends on the stocking list.
Anemones will slide down between rocks. Small fish can too.

On my 233, I have a RD3 150 watt pump for a closed loop. My first suction strainer was just a tee on the inside of the bulkhead with two 8" pieces of pvc pipe with regular strainers on the ends.
I put 1/4" holes everywhere. There were hundreds of holes in it.
Then I stacked rock as tight as I could around it.
It took a couple years, but eventually a anemone wandered over and got sucked it over night.
When the lights came on, I could see a haze in the water. I counted the anemones and realized one was gone from it's usual place.
I has about 70 gallons of water made up already, turned the pump off and drained the tank down a ways moved rock around and sure enough the anemone was sucked in the strainer.

Oh, and while working to get the strainer and anemone remains out, my shoulder bumped my Radion RMS rail mount and I knocked 4 gen 4 Radions into the tank.
So yeah, this was a moment.

 

[Zoaologist]

dang that would suck, sorry to hear that. Id like to avoid that if possible haha.
So for the drain would you suggest using a tee and a strainer on each side? Then putting lots of tiny holes on the tee and the drain pipe?

 

[mfinn]

A length of pipe from the tee to the strainer.
I wouldn't go too tiny.
I'm sure there is a science to it and hopefully someone can jump in with it.
I just made sure there was a over abundance of holes, hopefully to spread out the suction power and to make sure there wasn't a restriction.
Plus it needs to be accessible.

 

[JohnnyKnuckles]

With a tank of that size and the opportunity of having the closed loop system, why use any power heads in the tank? IWhat are you looking to grow that will require the added movement of the 16 Gyres?