Closed loop system for a corner tank!!!!

[92GallonReefer]

I have recently found out that my return pump is way to big for my tank and was thinking of making a HOB closed loop! Has anyone done this or on any other style tanks? I DO NOT WANT TO DRILL THE TANK! So any other things are game. the pump is a mag 9.5 and would want to run the closed loop separate from the return unless you can assure me of not overflowing the sump.

 

[fly guy]

A mag 9.5 isnt even close to enough pump to do a worthwhile closed loop of any kind on a 90 gallon tank....especially bringing it over the top

if you didnt have it seperate from the return........it wouldnt be a closed loop

I have set up a couple over the top Closed loops for people, and they can work, but I would be suggesting a pump more in the neighborhood of a dart or even as much as a hammerhead for that size tank, using large pipe and outlets so you get lots of good usable low velocity flow.

I will also offer that unless you want to look at some pipes going down low into the tank, without drilling I really dont see the point in doing a closed loop. Use powerheads, you are going to have to look at pipes or a pump. One of the major bonus of a closed lopp is not having to see equipmetn int he display, if you ahve to look at it anyway you might as well save the electricity and heat added and just use powerheads.

jmo

 

[92GallonReefer]

why wouldnt the mag be powerful enough for a closed loop without drilling the tank?

 

[ofblong]

Because of the number of 90's and length of tubing. You would take that 950gph down to about 100gph with all the head/90's etc etc you would be making it go through. I have an or3500 which is basically the same as a mag 9.5 and I use it for my return on my 29g. with all the 90's etc etc that pump is only pumping at about 500gph from the 950 it starts with.

 

[AlexStinson]

a 9.5 at full blast would be doing less than 1 modded maxijet 1200 .... and you would be spending huge amounts more, and taking up 20x the space.

 

[fly guy]

why wouldnt the mag be powerful enough for a closed loop without drilling the tank?

drilling the tank or not.......its simply not enough pump to power a cls unless you had it on a 10 gallon nano........

 

[Chrisqueenz]

A mag 9 in my opinion isn't to powerful for a 92corner. I have a mag 7 for my 92 and itching to upgrade to at least a 9 maybe even a 12.

 

[Salt Water Crazy]

Because of the number of 90's and length of tubing. You would take that 950gph down to about 100gph with all the head/90's etc etc you would be making it go through. I have an or3500 which is basically the same as a mag 9.5 and I use it for my return on my 29g. with all the 90's etc etc that pump is only pumping at about 500gph from the 950 it starts with.

Though I do think that a mag 9 is to small. Theres a big difrence in comparing a return pump to a closed loop. A closed loop does not have a head factor like a return pump. The lose in a closed loop is do to friction not head preasure.

This is why darts are so good for cl, and people are not useing preasure rated pumps for there closed loop like thay would for a return. (Darts dont take head good at all.)

 

[ofblong]

Though I do think that a mag 9 is to small. Theres a big difrence in comparing a return pump to a closed loop. A closed loop does not have a head factor like a return pump. The lose in a closed loop is do to friction not head preasure.

This is why darts are so good for cl, and people are not useing preasure rated pumps for there closed loop like thay would for a return. (Darts dont take head good at all.)

you obviously missed what the OP said. He is pushing the water up and over the top of the tank so it most certainly does have head pressure.

 

[Salt Water Crazy]

you obviously missed what the OP said. He is pushing the water up and over the top of the tank so it most certainly does have head pressure.

No I now what was said, and it doesnt make a difference if it is over the top or not. The same principles apply that it is done on friction. Please go read abought closed loops before you say that there is added head in a cl from how high it is.

Static Head: Static head represents the net change in height, in feet, that the pump must overcome. It applies only in open systems. Note that in a closed loop system, the static head is zero because the fluid on one side of the system pushes the fluid up the other side of the system, so the pump does not need to overcome any elevation.

 

[92GallonReefer]

A mag 9 in my opinion isn't to powerful for a 92corner. I have a mag 7 for my 92 and itching to upgrade to at least a 9 maybe even a 12.

i have the mag 9 on the tank right now and it is pushing too much water into the tank. the water will just not drain fast enough! any suggestions?

for now i have added a ball valve and just throttled the flow back!

 

[fly guy]

i have the mag 9 on the tank right now and it is pushing too much water into the tank. the water will just not drain fast enough! any suggestions?

for now i have added a ball valve and just throttled the flow back!

that is not a closed loop. that is a return

I assume you have only a 1" drain which is why it cant quite take it running full blast. Throttling back the push side of the pump with a ball valve as you say is fine and what you should be doing. You dont need to send any mroe water through your sump than that anyway. Your return pump is nto where the majority of your in tank flow should come from. In tank flow should come from powerheads or a closed loop and have nothing to do with the sump

 

[92GallonReefer]

that is not a closed loop. that is a return

I assume you have only a 1" drain which is why it cant quite take it running full blast. Throttling back the push side of the pump with a ball valve as you say is fine and what you should be doing. You dont need to send any mroe water through your sump than that anyway. Your return pump is nto where the majority of your in tank flow should come from. In tank flow should come from powerheads or a closed loop and have nothing to do with the sump

right, that is why i was wandering if the mag could be used as a closed loop or something because it just seems wasted being throttled back all the time

 

[fly guy]

right, that is why i was wandering if the mag could be used as a closed loop or something because it just seems wasted being throttled back all the time

not in my opinion it cant be used for a closed loop, or at least not one that will accomplish squat.

Throttling it back is fine as long as the ball valve is on the output side. Its using less electricity and less wear and tear on the pump in doing so. I would just let it ride as you have it. And for more flow in the tank if you need it get a decent powerhead or two.

Closed loops are great, but not if you dont plan on using a real pump and drilling that sucker

 

[ofblong]

No I now what was said, and it doesnt make a difference if it is over the top or not. The same principles apply that it is done on friction. Please go read abought closed loops before you say that there is added head in a cl from how high it is.

Static Head: Static head represents the net change in height, in feet, that the pump must overcome. It applies only in open systems. Note that in a closed loop system, the static head is zero because the fluid on one side of the system pushes the fluid up the other side of the system, so the pump does not need to overcome any elevation.

you miss the concept of what he is trying to do. This isnt a go up and then down this is a go up then down then back up then back down so yes even if it is a closed loop it still has head pressure. You need to read on the fundamentals of gravity.

 

[Salt Water Crazy]

this is a go up then down then back up then back down so yes even if it is a closed loop it still has head pressure.

Please show me where he said in this thread where this is how it is going to be done?

This is what he is trying to do I would assume.
http://www.melevsreef.com/closedloop.html

You need to read on the fundamentals of gravity.

O and I guess we should also look up the laws of physics to.

http://physics.about.com/od/physics101thebasics/p/PhysicsLaws.htm

Please look @ Conservation of Mass-Energy, And Conservation of Momentum.

Thanks please drive threw.

 

[JuniorMC8704]

Lets keep this friendly guys.

Also consider this. Every time you put a 90 on the line you are going to dramatically increase the resistance. Thus having a reduction in the outgoing flow. Be sure to take that into consideration when designing your plumbing. That alone, may make th Mag9 not nearly powerful enough.

Can we get some pictures of your actual setup? This could really help in brainstorming ideas with you.

Thanks

 

[ofblong]

Please show me where he said in this thread where this is how it is going to be done?

This is what he is trying to do I would assume.
http://www.melevsreef.com/closedloop.html

read the first post and your answer is right in front of your eyes.

 

[johnr2604]

you miss the concept of what he is trying to do. This isnt a go up and then down this is a go up then down then back up then back down so yes even if it is a closed loop it still has head pressure. You need to read on the fundamentals of gravity.

The only head that would be on it would be the difference between the water level in the overflow and the top of the tank which might be like an inch or two. So I am agreeing with saltwatercrazy that there would not be any head or at least not enough to make even a slight difference. He is trying to use a HOB overflow then pump back into the tank correct?