Cloudy tank (with video)

Crashjack · Jul 14, 2017

This tank is 72"x24"x19" with a 40 gal sump and has been up around 6 weeks... snails and hermits, two LPS corals, two gorgonians, two zoa frags, a bottle of Tisbe pods, and a sump refugium filled with chaeto. No fish. I cured pukani dry rock for over two months before starting tank. The barrel with the rock cycled (I tested). Mixed saltwater in tank before adding rock so rock never had time to dry and was never exposed to freshwater. Tank ran empty for 3 weeks before adding anything alive. During that time I ghost fed roughly 3 times per week. Once I added CUC, I started ghost feeding roughly 5 times per week. Food quantities are small, less than 1/4 cube-size frozen and very small pinch when feeding flake or other dry food.

I'm topping-off with kalk via a kalk stirrer. My pH probe went out about two weeks ago, and I just got a working replacement. Therefore, I've been flying blind for two weeks. When I tested a few days ago, my parameters were: Mag - 1320 ppm, alk - 8.7 dkh. Cal - 425 ppm. I added 3/4 cup BRS Mag Mix a few days ago, which equates to adding 15-20 ppm in my tank. I know it wasn't needed, but I'm trying to figure out my weekly usage/needed dosing. I took the stirrer offline two days ago, and these videos were shot today. I got my probe today, calibrated, and put in the sump tonight. My pH is a steady 8.03 (not 8.30) with tank lights off and refugium lights running.

My assumption was that I had overdosed kalk and that I was getting calcium precipitation. However, it has been 2 days since I topped-off with kalk, and my pH is pretty low. I had my socks out for several days and put back in yesterday... no difference. The little livestock I have appears unaffected. Though this tank is new, I am not. I was in the hobby for 5 or 6 years, and got out 15+ years ago. Having been gone so long, I did a lot of research before jumping back in. My point is, I'm not new to this and have educated myself through experience and research. However, that doesn't mean I can't make mistakes. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

By the way, that "aura" you see around the rock in the first video isn't the camera, it really looks like that.

Shaddow_wolf169 · Jul 14, 2017

More or less a bacteria bloom just make sure there is a lot of water movement up top. Did you stir up the sand?

Crashjack · Jul 14, 2017

Shaddow_wolf169 said:
More or less a bacteria bloom just make sure there is a lot of water movement up top. Did you stir up the sand?

I'm using (2) Gyre XF250s, which is really too much for this tank. They were blowing sand, and I was raking back in place. I finally manually programmed to where I get good, varied flow but less sand movement (made this change end of last week). I did clean my glass earlier this week and for the first time cleaned below the sand line. I was surprised how much sediment there still was (in the areas that hadn't already been blown around). That did cloud the tank some, but it was that normal fine sediment you have with sand. That said, the tank never really recovered, but I assumed a coincidence as I've had several instances of blown sand doing the same thing but clearing up in a couple of hours or so.

Shaddow_wolf169 · Jul 14, 2017

Probably forced a mini cycle in the tank sould clear up with in another day or so. check your nitrates. If it is a bloom of bacteria it will suck up a lot of oxygen force a lot of water movement up top.

Crashjack · Jul 14, 2017

Ok, I tested nitrate and phosphate today. I was surprised that my Nyos test kit read 0 ppm nitrate, and my API test kit read 0 ppm phosphate. I was meticulous with my testing and am confident with my procedure and following instructions. Knowing pukani rock is notorious for phosphates, during most of my curing time I tested phosphate and replaced Phosguard weekly. Though the API kit is near impossible to read and obtain any specificity, it was accurate enough to tell me whether or not phosphates were low enough for my Hanna ULR to measure (it can't measure phosphate higher than .60 ppm). I finally got my phosphate down to around .50 ppm (Hanna ULR) in the curing barrel. This API test result was the closest to any on the color card that I've witnessed. Whether or not phosphate actually measured 0 or not, I don't know, but it was way closer in color to 0.00 ppm than the next color, which is .25 ppm. Also, my Seachem Ammonia Alert has never registered any ammonia, though I haven't measured ammonia or nitrite in probably a month. I think these readings make sense as: 1) There has never been a fish in the tank, 2) I feed pretty lightly... really just to support my CUC and pods and to keep my biological filtration going. 3) My chaeto grows like gangbusters, filling the 10.5"x15.5" refugium section of my Trigger 39 sump.

The cloudiness might be bacterial or algae, but it doesn't appear to be due to high levels of nitrate, phosphate, or ammonia. The cloudiness might look a little better today, or it might just be wishful thinking. I went ahead and put the kalk stirrer back online but will take back off if the pH gets over maybe 8.3, and the problem persists. Any other thoughts?

fishbox · Jul 14, 2017

If it doesn't clear up in a couple days, get yourself a cheap UV light. Couple months back I had a bacteria bloom that turned into a very nasty phyto bloom. Water turned so green couldn't see a dang thing in the tank.

Shaddow_wolf169 · Jul 14, 2017

When I had a really bad bloom I changed 50% of the water and it cleared in a day.

fishbox · Jul 14, 2017

Shaddow_wolf169 said:
When I had a really bad bloom I changed 50% of the water and it cleared in a day.

Man I was doing 50% every 2-3 days. It would clear up a bit for a day or two but would come back with vengeance lol. Once it turned into a phyto bloom the water changes didn't do jack $h!% purchased a $30 UV light and it was clear in like 3days

Crashjack · Jul 14, 2017

50% water changes aren't really feasible. My saltwater mixing tank is only 40 gallons.

A little hard to see, but there has been some yellowing on the rock (it sort of looks like plaque). I thought it might be the culprit when this first started, but fanning it didn't stir it up or make it come off so I kind of forgot about it. It seems to be slowly disappearing so maybe it slowly letting go or dying-off and being released into the water column.

Shaddow_wolf169 · Jul 14, 2017

How old is the tank?

Crashjack · Jul 14, 2017

Been running around 6 weeks.

Crashjack · Jul 15, 2017

It's looking better today, though still not clear. My pH hasn't gotten above 8.23 and is now 8.11 (it's time to re-fill the stirrer). Is it possible this is just calcium precipitation that is taking days to reabsorb? Also, yesterday it seemed to look the best in the morning, and that might happen today. I wonder if it might be possible that my zero nitrate/phosphate is due to the system just utilizing all of it... the chaeto at night, and this bacteria or whatever during the day. My thought was to run my refugium LED 24/7 for a day or two, hoping that the chaeto outcompetes the other. My only fear is the chaeto going sexual. I wouldn't think so in a day or two, but I don't know a lot about macroalgae going sexual other than it seems to happen with Caulerpa quite often and much less frequently with Chaeto.

Shaddow_wolf169 · Jul 15, 2017

Your pH doesn't have to be above 8.3 8.0 to 8.3 is a perfect range mine usually runs at 7.9 you don't have to add kalk you tank is not even fully cycled yet.
@reefsquared @saltyfilmfolks please chime in

Shaddow_wolf169 · Jul 15, 2017

Please post all you parameters

saltyfilmfolks · Jul 15, 2017

Crashjack said:
I was getting calcium precipitation

Look at the heater first, any build up?

Crashjack said:
The cloudiness might be bacterial or algae, but it doesn't appear to be due to high levels of nitrate, phosphate, or ammonia.

only ammonia or an organic carbon source like vodka vinegar alcohols etc should cause a bloom I belive.

Crashjack said:
A little hard to see, but there has been some yellowing on the rock

IMO, possibly coralline or an algae.

Shaddow_wolf169 said:
t 7.9 you don't have to add kalk you tank is not even fully cycled yet.

Agreed.

Kalk for Ph i wouldn't do till its using more cal alk. how much Kalk is being used? And personally, I go with R Farley on stirrers. I let kalk settle.

No bottled bacteria, air freshers etc?

Shaddow_wolf169 · Jul 15, 2017

@saltyfilmfolks I agree the tank is still a baby it seems like she is over dosing kalk. The yellow stuff brown I'm assuming diatoms. the tank is only 6 weeks old.

Crashjack · Jul 15, 2017

I don't have time to re-do all params. right now but this week I tested:

Mag - 1320 ppm.
alk - 8.7 dkh.
Cal - 425 ppm.
Nitrate - 0 ppm.
Phosphate - 0 ppm.
Ammonia - 0 per Ammonia Alert.
PH since Thursday night - high of 8.23 last night.... mostly between 8.1 and 8.2.
Temp - stays between 78.5-78.9.

Look at the heater first, any build up? - Heaters are encased in plastic so hard to tell. There is some buildup in the sump compartment where the kalk enters, but not a lot.

Only ammonia or an organic carbon source like vodka vinegar alcohols etc should cause a bloom I believe. - Adding no carbon other than GAC.

Kalk for Ph i wouldn't do till its using more cal alk. how much Kalk is being used? And personally, I go with R Farley on stirrers. I let kalk settle. - I hear what you are saying. I'm using kalk so I can monitor via testing. I also have 2 fairly small LPS (had for about 2 weeks). Now, between last week and this week's testing, my alk went down .6 dkh, my cal went down 5 ppm (I know that could be just be from running two tests), and my mag went down 15 ppm. Maybe that was due to precipitation, not uptake. The tank is pretty bare and new, but the rock cured and cycled before ever adding to the tank. I'm going to install a bypass where if my pH gets to say, 8.34, I open a solenoid which allows RO to go straight to the sump. Since the stirrer creates back pressure, little if any kalk will enter the sump until the trigger... say 8.30, is reached, and the solenoid is closed. Mine is an actual stirrer with a slow rotating arm. The kalk settles. However, hard to tell how much is used. What happens is, pH gradually lowers so I know it is time to replenish. That's another reason for running kalk now, so I can figure out the timing for replacement and the amount to re-fill.

saltyfilmfolks · Jul 15, 2017

Crashjack said:
but not a lot.

You would see it regardless, the plasic gets hot. so likey not cal precip.

Crashjack said:
GAC.

Granular activated carbon is different from organic carbon. Organic carbon is easily digestible food. Our organic carbons are extracted from foods in similar processes.