Cloudy water dosing Lanthanum Chloride into filter sock

Randy Holmes-Farley · Aug 24, 2023

Lanthanum has no way to impact O2.

Lavey29 · Aug 24, 2023

bakbay said:
Interesting - I've not witnessed this. Actually, I don't test specifically for Oxygen level in my tank. My wavemakers are throttled down (so fish can sleep) so less surface agitation. I've been doing this for more than 2yrs -- no issues dosing during the day vs night.

Oh I dose stuff at night just not phosphate rx because there are reports of it lowering 02. The only way I could tell if 02 was low would be fish at the surface gasping. I dose cal overnight because that is when the skeletal structure is growing. I dose AF Build at night too.

Lavey29 · Aug 24, 2023

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
Lanthanum has no way to impact O2.

What if you dose or overdose it with no phosphate in the water won't that cause calcium precipitation and breathing issues for fish? There are prior internet posts describing this situation.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Aug 24, 2023

Lavey29 said:
What if you dose or overdose it with no phosphate in the water won't that cause calcium precipitation and breathing issues for fish? There are prior internet posts describing this situation.

Some folks do claim gill issues, but that’s not from reduced O2 in the water.

bakbay · Aug 24, 2023

Lavey29 said:
Oh I dose stuff at night just not phosphate rx because there are reports of it lowering 02. The only way I could tell if 02 was low would be fish at the surface gasping. I dose cal overnight because that is when the skeletal structure is growing. I dose AF Build at night too.

Are you referring to this article from Reefbum?

Using Lanthanum Chloride in a Reef, Too Risky? - ReefBum

One option to reduce phosphate in a reef tank is to use Lanthanum chloride. Reef keepers have had success using it but it does come with a lot of risk.

www.reefbum.com

"If these particles make their way into an aquarium then fish can perish, especially tangs. Fish essentially choke from the lack of oxygen since the substance impacts their gill plates."

Overdosing anything/everything has consequences. From my personal experience -- I have 5 tangs (one of them is a Hawaiian Yellow Tang, which people said is susceptible to Lanthanum) and have zero issues. Again, sharing my personal experience -- ymmv.

Lavey29 · Aug 24, 2023

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
Some folks do claim gill issues, but that’s not from reduced O2 in the water.

Ok then what causes the breathing issues for the fish using lanthium chloride?

Lavey29 · Aug 24, 2023

bakbay said:
Are you referring to this article from Reefbum?

Using Lanthanum Chloride in a Reef, Too Risky? - ReefBum

One option to reduce phosphate in a reef tank is to use Lanthanum chloride. Reef keepers have had success using it but it does come with a lot of risk.

www.reefbum.com

"If these particles make their way into an aquarium then fish can perish, especially tangs. Fish essentially choke from the lack of oxygen since the substance impacts their gill plates."

Overdosing anything/everything has consequences. From my personal experience -- I have 5 tangs (one of them is a Hawaiian Yellow Tang, which people said is susceptible to Lanthanum) and have zero issues. Again, sharing my personal experience -- ymmv.

That's one source but there are others also. I had no issues half dosing it in my tank for 3 months. Just didn't dose it at night.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Aug 24, 2023

Lavey29 said:
Ok then what causes the breathing issues for the fish using lanthium chloride?

I don’t know if it is real or not, but if real, it is likely a direct particulate/gill or lanthanum/gill interaction.

bakbay · Aug 24, 2023

Lavey29 said:
Oh I dose stuff at night just not phosphate rx because there are reports of it lowering 02. The only way I could tell if 02 was low would be fish at the surface gasping. I dose cal overnight because that is when the skeletal structure is growing. I dose AF Build at night too.

Separately, I'm not aware of dosing Ca at night for corals to grow skeletal structure growing at night. I thought you'll want to dose Alk & Ca at opposite time periods. That is, dosing both at the same time will cause Ca precipitation.

I'm on a CaRx so have not done 2-part in a long time but I'm not aware of the benefit to dosing Ca at night.

Lavey29 · Aug 24, 2023

bakbay said:
Separately, I'm not aware of dosing Ca at night for corals to grow skeletal structure growing at night. I thought you'll want to dose Alk & Ca at opposite time periods. That is, dosing both at the same time will cause Ca precipitation.

I'm on a CaRx so have not done 2-part in a long time but I'm not aware of the benefit to dosing Ca at night.

I dose alk during the day and cal overnight

Lavey29 · Aug 24, 2023

bakbay said:
Separately, I'm not aware of dosing Ca at night for corals to grow skeletal structure growing at night. I thought you'll want to dose Alk & Ca at opposite time periods. That is, dosing both at the same time will cause Ca precipitation.

I'm on a CaRx so have not done 2-part in a long time but I'm not aware of the benefit to dosing Ca at night.

I do it because of using AF Build overnight so I want my calcium levels at their highest. I have had extraordinary growth with this approach.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Aug 24, 2023

Lavey29 said:
I do it because of using AF Build overnight so I want my calcium levels at their highest. I have had extraordinary growth with this approach.

Well, the calcium addition cannot be very much each day (5-20 ppm) and calcification does not depend much on the calcium level.

But even if you propose it does, you could just keep it a bit higher and still dose during the day so the nightly low is equal to what you have dosing ut at night, couldn’t you?

Lavey29 · Aug 24, 2023

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
Well, the calcium addition cannot be very much each day (5-20 ppm) and calcification does not depend much on the calcium level.

But even if you propose it does, you could just keep it a bit higher and still dose during the day so the nightly low is equal to what you have dosing ut at night, couldn’t you?

Probably but I just like to keep alk and cal separate so alk doses during the day and cal at night. 35ml of each are dosed in small amounts over 10 hours day and 10 hours night.

Dolphis · Aug 25, 2023

Reefing_TM_Style said:
Nice thanks for the info, I appreciate it

I love to learn the stuff I've never done myself.

Learning right along your side too

Dolphis · Aug 25, 2023

bakbay said:
You should be good -- I have a 150g cube and I dose 30-40 drops, all in one shot, roughly every 6 months. I like PhosphateRx -- yes, it's cloudy but less messy than doing GFOs & canisters. Of course, I don't dose unless PO4 is over 0.10. My last test was on 6/30: NO3 @ 20 and PO4 @ 0.10 -- I will test & dose (if necessary) at the end of this year.

If you're concerned about cloudiness - just do what I do -- dose after the lights are out, before bed!

LC is a wonderful tool to have!
Other than being less messy, I find it easier to control my PO4 reduction compared to gfo.
Less time consuming too!

The coloration of the water doesn’t bother me, other than you can’t see everything as clearly. I was mainly concerned for my tangs, especially since I have 4 zebrazomas.
I have thought about dosing at night tho lol

Dolphis · Aug 25, 2023

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
I don’t know if it is real or not, but if real, it is likely a direct particulate/gill or lanthanum/gill interaction.

This was my take too.
As I understood it, particles, either from the LC or from some interaction with the water column, would affect tangs, specifically zebrazoma, as it’s theorized they have a different gill structure.

On its own, would LC have any particles when dissolved properly into pure water?