Cloudy water... should I use Carbon?

[i_declare_bankruptcy]

I have a new tank... about 1.5 weeks old. Nuvo 30L with cured LR and non-live sand bed. Purigen and filter sponges in the back. I started with AquaVitro seed and ammonia source (shrimp) and followed the dosing. My water was crystal clear and I cycled in a week (at least to the point where ammonia, nitrite were 0 and nitrate was 0-2).

I added a clownfish when the tank stabilized and he seems to be doing well. I carefully feed him with a dropper so that there is little waste floating around the tank. I do have three hermit crabs as a 'clean up crew' who seem to be on it when waste hits the floor lol. However, this is when the cloudy water started to appear.

My current measurements are and have been (I check multiple times a day religiously):
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0-2
Phosphate: 0
Alk: 8
pH: 8.2
Temp: 80
Salinity: 1.026 (purposefully up from 1.0245)

I only use RODI water with TDS of 0-1 for top up and water change.

I'm sure this is a result of adding the clownfish and his food but I'm not sure how to combat it. I did perform a 12% water change yesterday but still do not see a difference. I pointed my return lines and powerhead towards the middle or top of the tank a few days ago to see if it was sand but no luck. No micro bubbles. It seems by deduction that this is a bacterial bloom.

In this case, with a young tank, should I try using carbon or should I let it run its course? I'm worried it is unhealthy for my inhabitants. Of course I do not plan on adding any more livestock for the time being.

Oh also my photoperiod ramps up/down within 12-13h and I was running a moonlight but stopped as of last night.

 

[ZoWhat]

Prob an algae bloom that won't show up on any tests.

Choices:
*wait it out
*turn lights off until Sunday nite
*do a 25% WC
*run carbon
*wet wet skim

 

[Crabs McJones]

If the tank is cloudy again it almost sounds like it didn't complete its cycle. Cloudiness is generally a bacterial bloom. At this point i'd let it run its course.

 

[jda]

No. Let it be. You might need another month or two before this all clears up... probably faster, though.

Any interference that you do will need to be repaid 2 or 3x later down the line since you stopped nature from doing it's thing and starting to establish an equilibrium. The bacteria will do a better job than you can.

All that I would do is make sure that the Ammonia stays low to keep the Clown healthy.

 

[i_declare_bankruptcy]

During the cycle I added an ammonia source when I saw the ammonia and nitrite at 0 and the tank quickly recovered back to 'equilibrium'. From what I've read, it sounds like I was following the cycling steps correctly. It also seemed people who added lots of well-cured live rock to their system and some sort of seed experienced a much faster cycle. There still is no nitrite and ammonia and phosphate in the tank at all. It just seemed odd to me to wait some indeterminate amount of time (people say 1 week to 3 months) to guess that the tank is ready. Seems like a lot of people who add an ammonia source like a fish still experience some sort of bloom. I made the decision just based on my water quality observations and based on what are considered safe parameters for the tank -- definitely not a 'canary in the coal mine' intent haha.

I'm just explaining my thought process, not trying to be defensive! Can anyone instruct me if I did something wrong?

It sounds like letting nature do its thing is the best approach which I will follow. Thanks everyone

 

[jda]

You are probably fine. Each tank is a bit different and there are a lot of ways to get this done. I have never added ammonia or a bacteria-in-a-bottle, but some do with great success - I just use real live rock to seed everything.

Just be patient and try not to use any chemicals. Just remember that most of the awesome tanks that you see do not have algae issues, do not use any artificial media and mostly let nature take it's course with a ton of patience. There are people who will talk about how they control this and that, but check and see how long those folks have been in the hobby and how successful they are - it is not impossible or anything, but a lot of people who interfere too much have crashes and middling results.

Remember that you are just now through the first part of the N cycle - the most known and easiest part which is NH4 => NO2 => NO3. The more important part for the long haul is turning NO3 into N gas. This last part can take nine months or a year and will require anoxic bacteria to develop deep into the rock and sand (if you have any). This can take a bit longer if you used dry/dead rock. This part can sometimes require some patience too, but anything that you do here to lower the nitrate will inhibit the growth of these anoxic bacteria. This can be hard, but it is worth it... I am 4 months into a new setup right now and I have a bit of hair algae all over the place because I am not denitrifying well enough... I am just going to look at an ugly tank for another month or two and then it will all get beautiful. The coralline just started to come in waves, so this is a good sign too. The hair algae uses up all of the N and P which allows the corlline to grow. Then, the anoxic bacteria grows which slowly starves the hair algae (along with consumers) and it goes away for good.

 

[i_declare_bankruptcy]

You are probably fine. Each tank is a bit different and there are a lot of ways to get this done. I have never added ammonia or a bacteria-in-a-bottle, but some do with great success - I just use real live rock to seed everything.

Just be patient and try not to use any chemicals. Just remember that most of the awesome tanks that you see do not have algae issues, do not use any artificial media and mostly let nature take it's course with a ton of patience. There are people who will talk about how they control this and that, but check and see how long those folks have been in the hobby and how successful they are - it is not impossible or anything, but a lot of people who interfere too much have crashes and middling results.

Remember that you are just now through the first part of the N cycle - the most known and easiest part which is NH4 => NO2 => NO3. The more important part for the long haul is turning NO3 into N gas. This last part can take nine months or a year and will require anoxic bacteria to develop deep into the rock and sand (if you have any). This can take a bit longer if you used dry/dead rock. This part can sometimes require some patience too, but anything that you do here to lower the nitrate will inhibit the growth of these anoxic bacteria. This can be hard, but it is worth it... I am 4 months into a new setup right now and I have a bit of hair algae all over the place because I am not denitrifying well enough... I am just going to look at an ugly tank for another month or two and then it will all get beautiful. The coralline just started to come in waves, so this is a good sign too. The hair algae uses up all of the N and P which allows the corlline to grow. Then, the anoxic bacteria grows which slowly starves the hair algae (along with consumers) and it goes away for good.

Fantastic insight, thank you! I agree completely with the no chemicals approach. I don't deny that they can be useful to solve bad situations, but I want to do my best to just let it run its course. I want to keep my tank as simple as possible for maintenance (and my budget).

Looks like my clown is already out and about being... weird like he usually is. I guess there's a reason why they're called clownfish.

I'll continue to wait and monitor the bacteria.

I'm curious have you added corals before the green algae or cyano?

BTW I just bought a house in Lakewood

 

[brandon429]

this was skip cycle rock, the extra shrimp bioloading was not harmful but not needed, the rock already had all its bac even if you brought it home sitting in the trunk and not in water, that kind of transport doesn't kill filtration bacteria on cured coralline live rock.

based on that initial organic loading, and the early bioload, this should be water changed up to all of it for a fresh start, its ok if you don't but there isn't a benefit in holding on to lots of organic skimmable algae fueling eventually waste either. do a big wc/ make a habit of that its such a powerful nano remedy

if your sand wasn't pre rinsed to remove silt then that could be the biggest component as well, either way the giant wc handles all issues and if you pour back new water and it comes up cloudy again, consider rinsing out and re installing your sandbed (doesn't hurt the bac on it) or just waiting for that cloud to pass if its sandbed silt. <--- it is always ok to pre rinse live sand you buy in bags, it doesn't hurt it, and no worms are inside only sand and water and bac.

a water change here of 100% and sandbed reassessment would set you on the path to direct forced control over the system vs taking action and waiting, really a powerful habit in smaller systems where 20 or 30 gallons is a complete fresh start, before any problems developed.

 

[i_declare_bankruptcy]

The guy from the LFS said he uses that sand in all his setups and does not rinse with no issues. I know that's anecdotal but maybe the sand isn't an issue? It was perfectly clear before I added the clown.

I'm honestly not sure if I feel comfortable doing such a huge water change or a series of large water changes in succession. Wouldn't that be very harmful to my clown and the hermits if I don't get it exact for every water change -- and even then isn't it a risk? I don't think my water change skills are quite there yet.

Don't I want that ugly algae bacteria in there to fuel 'good' bacteria that can convert that stuff to something harmless? If I perform a 100% change don't I lose that food for the bacteria?

Last question, how exactly does one do a 100% water change? Isn't that physically impossible unless you place the animals in a bucket and remove ALL water? If I changed 50%, refilled, then changed 50%, the water would mix to be uniform and it really would be 30 / 2 = 15 gal; 15 / 2 = 7.5 gal? i.e. I would never get rid of all that bacteria because I would only be dividing the available water's concentration by 2 per change?

 

[brandon429]

its ok to leave enough water for them to swim in and refill/not a prob. all you'd have to match is temp and salinity of the change water, not ph and all the other params

water changes never alter bacteria harmfully and neither does actually rinsing surfaces off, the bac remain (and this allows us deep cleaning access we show below)
its ok to change half the water if you want, if you re pour and it still clouds you know its the sand and given time it w clear up as it aggregates and falls down into the bed slowly.

if your sandbed is cloudy and you want it clean then we'd go the more thorough way. just to show you deep cleans for the future if you ever want to know them, or effect one for a home move etc, this is the biology that's for sure:

 

[brandon429]

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/t...ead-aka-one-against-many.230281/#post-2681445


we aren't saying you have to rinse, just that if you want to, you can.

its easy to find out before your water change if your bed is an issue, reach in with a stick and see if swirling kicks up any clouding. the pre rinsed bed wouldn't cloud if you reached in and grabbed/dropped four handfuls/snowglobe effect.

it was ok to run carbon the whole time here, but better reefing practice to locate and remediate without it.

clouding in nano reefing is always, always traceable and its abnormal, so its really good practice to learn to force these things to run clean without further filtration and waiting approaches.