Clown death

[Foxchase]

So I had 2 clowns that I got at the same time in my 20g long after my tank had cycled. It was a Picasso and a flurry.
Sadly, the flurry would not stop going after the Picasso and ended up killing him. I did not realize this was happening because they didn't do it while I was there but I did catch them on occasion and tossed it up to them doing the whole pairing ritual and since I saw no damage, I didn't separate them which I regret very deeply.

But now I just have the flurry. It's still small. Probably an inch maybe an inch and 1/4.

He's the only fish in the tank. I want another clown. What do you guys recommend to avoid this happening again

 

[Zionas]

What size was the other clown?

 

[Foxchase]

What size was the other clown?

Slightly smaller than the one still alive. I specifically asked my lfs to get me different sizes to make it work when I got them

 

[Zionas]

Maybe an acclimation box?

Sorry for your loss. It’s probably just bad luck, though I do wish I could give you better advice. A 20-gallon tank is pretty small. In a larger tank I’d suggest more rockwork so they can disengage if need be.

Maybe this time try getting a Clown larger than it, maybe by 25-50% larger and of the same patterning to play on the safe side.

For Clowns, if they’re both really small they’re probably still undecided in their gender or male (if I have it correctly)? This time if you get a larger Clown of the same patterning the hope is the larger one will become the female one and make the smaller male / eventual male submit.

 

[Foxchase]

Maybe an acclimation box?

Sorry for your loss. It’s probably just bad luck, though I do wish I could give you better advice. A 20-gallon tank is pretty small. In a larger tank I’d suggest more rockwork so they can disengage if need be.

Maybe this time try getting a Clown larger than it, maybe by 25-50% larger and of the same patterning to play on the safe side.

For Clowns, if they’re both really small they’re probably still undecided in their gender or male (if I have it correctly)? This time if you get a larger Clown of the same patterning the hope is the larger one will become the female one and make the smaller male / eventual male submit.

I guess my worry is that the one I have left already turned female. If so, getting a bigger clown would be a recipe for disaster

 

[Zionas]

Ouch. I’m pretty new to this myself and I also need to learn. Let’s get the experts to weigh in on this one, but yeah, try getting another of the same patterning to play it safe.

 

[Katrina71]

Pair yours with the smallest you can find.

 

[OrionN]

IME in breeding Ocellaris, Percula and Hybrid of the two, clown fish of different species tend to have harder, rougher time to pair. Their signals, dominant and submissive, may not be exactly quite the same and and thus they may not be able to communicate as well. The dominate one may continue to attack when she should not.
I think the Flurry is an Ocellaris and Picasso is a Percula. It is not impossible to pair them but the submissive can take quite a beating until they pair.
If you want a easier time get them to pair, get a smaller Ocellaris. Whatever designer variance you want, but it have to be an Ocellaris clown (since Flurry clown is an Ocellaris variance). Then you won't have much (or as much) problem.
Good luck.

 

[Zionas]

I thought Percula Clowns and Ocellaris pair easily? Not that I want to take the risk (I will only get one smaller and one bigger Ocellaris personally, and not mix species) but I heard it’s not overly difficult for Percula and Ocellaris to pair. Maybe I’m wrong.

 

[OrionN]

I thought Percula Clowns and Ocellaris pair easily? Not that I want to take the risk (I will only get one smaller and one bigger Ocellaris personally, and not mix species) but I heard it’s not overly difficult for Percula and Ocellaris to pair. Maybe I’m wrong.

They are not hard to pair, but harder. The tank need to be big enough and enough area and "furniture" in it so the looser can take refuge in case he need it. I pair plenty of cross species pairs breeding SnowOnyx. They are my favorite of the hybrids.

 

[Zionas]

What is the level of aggression you see when trying to pair Ocellaris / Percula compared to Percula / Percula or Ocellaris / Ocellaris?

It makes me wonder how many people, including the OP, experience so much aggression when pairing Clowns even with a size difference due to them being designer breeds but derived from different species.

 

[Foxchase]

IME in breeding Ocellaris, Percula and Hybrid of the two, clown fish of different species tend to have harder, rougher time to pair. Their signals, dominant and submissive, may not be exactly quite the same and and thus they may not be able to communicate as well. The dominate one may continue to attack when she should not.
I think the Flurry is an Ocellaris and Picasso is a Percula. It is not impossible to pair them but the submissive can take quite a beating until they pair.
If you want a easier time get them to pair, get a smaller Ocellaris. Whatever designer variance you want, but it have to be an Ocellaris clown (since Flurry clown is an Ocellaris variance). Then you won't have much (or as much) problem.
Good luck.

They were both ocellaris

 

[OrionN]

They were both ocellaris

Picasso is an Amphiprion percula, not Amphiprion ocellaris.

 

[Foxchase]

Picasso is an Amphiprion percula, not Amphiprion ocellaris.

I'm so sorry it was a mocha Vinci B. I apologise. I checked back to the email I get from my LFS. I associated it in my head because davinci and Picasso. My mistake

 

[DeniseAndy]

More than likely still an issue with not being able to get away. When the clowns are establishing dominance, one needs to be able to get away from the aggressor. They need time and space to sort it out. This can mean simple change of rock/ more added. Just a space to get away.
If your current fish is still small and juvenile, than you can pair as you want. I personally always pair up a small juvenile with any current fish. For example, when I have lost one of the pair.

 

[Foxchase]

More than likely still an issue with not being able to get away. When the clowns are establishing dominance, one needs to be able to get away from the aggressor. They need time and space to sort it out. This can mean simple change of rock/ more added. Just a space to get away.
If your current fish is still small and juvenile, than you can pair as you want. I personally always pair up a small juvenile with any current fish. For example, when I have lost one of the pair.

I have about 25 lbs of rock. I'll get more, see if I can find a small (smaller than the current one) and I'll change the rocks around before adding. Does that sound like it could work? Is there anything else I can do to increase my odds?

 

[DeniseAndy]

That is quite a bit of rock in a 20g. Just make sure there are plenty of hidey holes. Smallest fish you can find is really the best way I have had success with pairing. Even after I had a poor girl for 6 months all alone, I put in a baby and it went great.
I lost a female once and put in a baby with the male and he became female and it worked too. Basically, clowns have a heirarchy. The dominant female, dominant male and the others (lesser males and juveniles). If you lose the female, the next in line (the dominant male) will turn to female. So, if you have a pair and lose one, it will always want to dominate the new tankmate. Ergo, get a baby that will submit.