Clown fish died. ph is 7.9. Could this be why?

[nano reef]

My first fish died. It was a clownfish. I believe my LFS may have sold me a sick fish. It was fine for about a week then it started hiding next thing you know it started losing color, rapid breathing this was in the middle of the night. I was up all night trying to figure out what to do researching ect. Seemed like maybe brooklynella, or however you spell it. My snails I got from the get go have been fine. My parameters are fine 0 ammonia and nitrites and low nitrates. Salinity 1.024. My ph is the concern. I have been reading so much about ph and it confuses me because I thought ph is the measure of alkalinity in your tank. The info I am reading says get an alkalinity test kit. Why wouldnt my ph probe be enough? I havnt been running my light until recently. BRS said keep it off first few months of a new tank. I suppose to avoid algae. My ph is usually 7.8 7.9.

I have read clown fish should have 8.0 or higher. I have also read that many people have had clownfish for years with ph of 7.8 and levels slightly below 8. Will my ph go up when I start dosing when I have corals? Should I hook up my wavemaker? I am thinking of adding a yellow clown goby and I am afraid it will be blown around to much by the wavemaker. I am also going to upgrade my aqua clear 30 to a 50 tomorrow. Maybe the xtra flow might give me more circulation. I do have the aqua clear 30 pretty crammed so my be impeding the flow. I am also going to add the yellow clown goby first now that my clownfish have died, since it is a peaceful fish and I read peaceful should go first. Should I wait until I get my ph up to 8? I have occasionally got readings of 8, but mostly 7.8, 7.9. That is with a newly calibrated hanna checker.

I have also read about adding baking soda or dosing with Kalkwasser. I have also read that adding these additives could mess with other things...so confused.. What should I do or am I fine with the readings I am getting? Any advice greatly appreciated!

 

[Lithoman]

Sorry about your loss...PH 7.8 and up is good. .. Get a good test kit Alkalinity, Calcium and phosphate are the 3 I test most. Nitrate every couple of weeks.. You are trying to prevent major swings. Stability is the key. What are you using for checking salinity? Do you have any other fish showing any stress..? How long has your tank been running?

 

[Dipan Desai]

Hard to say what it could have been. Seems like fish from any pet store come in with a high risk of disease. I learned that lesson the hard way and lost almost every single fish in my system. Not sure what size tank or how many fish you have but I would highly encourage QT all new fish being added to your system or the next best option and what I normally do is wait for someone selling their fish that have already been established.

 

[nano reef]

The clown fish Is the only fish I have. It is a newly cycled tank. I have snails that i bought the same day and they are doing fine. I dont understand what happened. I thought clownfish were pretty hardy and snails not as much. Its making me think the fish was sick although it was fine for about a week. It acclimated very well and immediately wanted to eat. Never showed any signs of stress until it started hiding under the rock and next day it was dead. Since all my parameters are good except questionable ph it made me think either ph is issue or she sold me a sick fish. I dont get the whole thing about alkalinity. I thought it was the measure of ph, either whether its acidic or alkaline. Its a separate measure? I also have a reef test kit but dosnt have alkalinity in it. I havnt used it yet just been using my Sw kit. I have a refractometer for salinity. I also have a hanna checker, but taking it back. Sometimes hard to read salinity with refractometer when you have bad eyes...haha. especially at night!

 

[SudzFD]

It’s really hard to say but I doubt it was the pH. That sounds fine.

Other possibilities:

1 fish was sick and it took a week to claim him

2 Stress of transport/acclimation. Either at the LFS AND DISTRIBUTOR or you or both.

3. New tank had an ammonia spike due to the new fish.

4. Poor eating due to stress/captivity.

5. The sad reality is a lot of fish simply don’t make it no matter what tank they end up in.

to help your odds, find a quality LFS. Spend time selecting your fish and observing them. Watch them eat at the LFS. Slowly acclimate them and cross your fingers.

 

[nano reef]

Hard to say what it could have been. Seems like fish from any pet store come in with a high risk of disease. I learned that lesson the hard way and lost almost every single fish in my system. Not sure what size tank or how many fish you have but I would highly encourage QT all new fish being added to your system or the next best option and what I normally do is wait for someone selling their fish that have already been established.

I am defiently going to set up a quarantine soon! This was my first fish! Thank God, I guess if it was sick it could kill all my fish, If I had more. That would be to big of a risk to take, especially when I upgrade. I started with a 10 gallon, just to kind of get my feet wet! Or my hands wet! haha. I am going to wait until my future corals get bigger than upgrade to a much bigger tank!

How do I setup a quarantine? Do I have to do water changes and run it the same way as my main tank. I hope not, It expensive enough to change water weekly in a ten gallon. I have no skimmer so I do weekly changes. Could I set up quarantine with a frag tank? Probably not incase I have to medicate. I thought about starting a frag tank in the future. I also thought about setting up quarantine in my garage, but it gets really humid and no airflow and we live in Florida so maybe not a good idea. Just dont want to have a plain ole quarantine tank around that is plain...You know what I mean? Maybe I could set it up in the corner of a guest room. Kind of out of sight. Not like I get many guests anyway! LOL

What do you mean about getting a fish that is already established? Like from a friend or something? I know my lfs had this batch for a while. I saw them when my tank was cycling. Funny though the one I got was in a tank by himself, she said she moves them around though. It was a baby, about 1 in and maybe a half or quarter. I saw that batch there for about a month. There were only 2 left in separate tanks. I should have taken the one that wasnt alone but I saw some scuffling going on and saw it go after a bigger gladiator! She also had medication in the water. It was yellow and I asked and she says she always puts that in the bag to help fight disease or something. It started with a f. Cant remember the name of the medicine.The fact that my snails are doing well makes me question the health of the fish! Are snails hardier than clownfish? I have nassarius and astrea

 

[ScottR]

FYI - Many clownfish are captured using cyanide and many can be fine for awhile and just eventually get weak and die. It wasn’t your pH. 7.9 is normal. Many people try and struggle to maintain 8.1.

 

[nano reef]

It’s really hard to say but I doubt it was the pH. That sounds fine.

Other possibilities:

1 fish was sick and it took a week to claim him

2 Stress of transport/acclimation. Either at the LFS AND DISTRIBUTOR or you or both.

3. New tank had an ammonia spike due to the new fish.

4. Poor eating due to stress/captivity.

5. The sad reality is a lot of fish simply don’t make it no matter what tank they end up in.

to help your odds, find a quality LFS. Spend time selecting your fish and observing them. Watch them eat at the LFS. Slowly acclimate them and cross your fingers.

It was my first acclimation. I now have a drip kit I plan to use. I took my time acclimating it and it was eating and swimming all around for a week or so. It never swam like I see clownfish do though, that lopping type of swim, how they have that style of swimming. It just swan normally. I do know that she had that batch there for a month or so. It was the last of two. I was checking my ammonia frequently and never saw any ammonia and the snails are fine, unless snails are hardier. But say there was a spike, arent clownfish hardy? I know some people even cycle with them so they must deal with crazy ammonia levels cycling a tank!

What about the loss of color? Does that happen when they are dying or stressed. I read brooklynella can cause that. She also put medication in the bag. I asked her about it and she says she always puts in in the bag, I believe to help fight disease. It starts with a F. She is a pretty reputable store. A mom and pop type. She is literally down the street from me and I like to support local mom and pop businesses but if it happens again, then I will find another place.

I am definitely going to set up a quarantine soon. Thank God I had no ther fish in the tank. I am a total newbie an dthis is my first fish besides my betta

 

[ScottR]

It was my first acclimation. I now have a drip kit I plan to use. I took my time acclimating it and it was eating and swimming all around for a week or so. It never swam like I see clownfish do though, that lopping type of swim, how they have that style of swimming. It just swan normally. I do know that she had that batch there for a month or so. It was the last of two. I was checking my ammonia frequently and never saw any ammonia and the snails are fine, unless snails are hardier. But say there was a spike, arent clownfish hardy? I know some people even cycle with them so they must deal with crazy ammonia levels cycling a tank!

What about the loss of color? Does that happen when they are dying or stressed. I read brooklynella can cause that. She also put medication in the bag. I asked her about it and she says she always puts in in the bag, I believe to help fight disease. It starts with a F. She is a pretty reputable store. A mom and pop type. She is literally down the street from me and I like to support local mom and pop businesses but if it happens again, then I will find another place.

I am definitely going to set up a quarantine soon. Thank God I had no ther fish in the tank. I am a total newbie an dthis is my first fish besides my betta

Probably Furan 2 for the meds. My LFS gets hundreds of clownfish in when they get a shipment. Many look good for a week, then they lose their color and die. Most people attribute this to cyanide poisoning. But there could be many other reasons why your fish died. Most people here can just tell you what they think. Pics of your setup may help

 

[nano reef]

FYI - Many clownfish are captured using cyanide and many can be fine for awhile and just eventually get weak and die. It wasn’t your pH. 7.9 is normal. Many people try and struggle to maintain 8.1.

That is really sad and discusting. Cyanide! I think my next clown will be a tank raised. I really cant believe that in this day and time that clownfish are wild caught! Is it that hard to breed in capitivity? Is it that way for all fish, wild caught I mean or is it clown and certain other breeds? I am looking at a yellow clown goby. I wonder if they are all wild caught? There have been very few fish I have seen at fish stores that have had a sticker saying tank raised and who knows if they are even telling the truth!

I go out with the family alot just window shopping, mostly pricing corals for when I am able to add some. I literally cant wait! LOL I live in florida and it makes me wonder if the corals are wild caught or if they are aquacultured!

Back to the ph. When you read care info on clowns and yellow clown gobies it says ph should be 8.0 to 8.4 I believe. I have never had a reading of past 8. Maybe its from dosing that people get those numbers. I read corals need a higher ph. You dont think I should do anything to up ph? I have read so much conflicting info on it and truthfully dont understand it all. I have read it could be low because i dont have oxygenated enough water. I did just hook u my light today and I also read that could effect ph. Hopefully it will up it some.

I would like to get a new fish. I am also afraid to keep the tank empty beacuse I have read to feed ur tank if you dont have fish, beacuse you could lose the ammonia fighting bacteria. I do have the snails. I am also frankly worried about what they are eating. I keep it really clean. I wonder If I should let the algae stay on the walls at least, but all the youtubes I see of people with 10 gallons no skimmer they aggressively clean the tank. I am almost starting to hope some algae will grow, even though I hate the look of it! Is there a such thing as snail food? When the clown stopped eatting I was putting in a lot of food trying to draw him out but then I got most all of it out right before he died. I should have left it in for the snails and the ammonia to be present to keep the cycle going.

 

[nano reef]

Probably Furan 2 for the meds. My LFS gets hundreds of clownfish in when they get a shipment. Many look good for a week, then they lose their color and die. Most people attribute this to cyanide poisoning. But there could be many other reasons why your fish died. Most people here can just tell you what they think. Pics of your setup may help

That fish was at the lfs for a month or so though. I just noticed you said they die within a week. She is a very small store and had this one batch of osellaris clowns for a bout a month. This was the last of 2. She said it was from that batch when I asked her before it was sick. I was enquiring about getting a mate for it, but she was out off ocellaris. When it got sick she told me to bring the fish back the next day, if it didnt get better, but it didnt make it. I did call her close to closing time or I am sure she would have said bring it back that day. At that point it was just hiding under the rock. I dint really notice the color loss and the fast respirations though. It all transpired quickly after that. It died early the next morn

 

[SudzFD]

The snails are almost indestructible. Don’t worry about them at all. They will be fine. No need to feed them. They will find food.

your pH is also fine, we don’t advise chasing numbers in the hobby. It does more harm than good. Stability is key.

I’d do a 20% water change and start over.

you also mentioned putting lots of food in, this could have contributed to an ammonia spike. Even with testing, sometimes a spike can occur due to bacteria being slow to consume it. By the time you test it may be gone. Typically fish won’t eat well for the first couple days in a new tank. Also, if scared of the person approaching the tank, they may not eat well. There’s a lot of possibilities for everything.

finally, yes 95% of the fish you buy are wild caught. I’ve only ever seen tank raised oscellaris clowns. I’ve heard there are tank raised yellow tangs also. Otherwise most came from the ocean. The best fish are net caught. The other methods lead to high mortality in the long term.

 

[Tamberav]

That is really sad and discusting. Cyanide! I think my next clown will be a tank raised. I really cant believe that in this day and time that clownfish are wild caught! Is it that hard to breed in capitivity? Is it that way for all fish, wild caught I mean or is it clown and certain other breeds? I am looking at a yellow clown goby. I wonder if they are all wild caught? There have been very few fish I have seen at fish stores that have had a sticker saying tank raised and who knows if they are even telling the truth!

I go out with the family alot just window shopping, mostly pricing corals for when I am able to add some. I literally cant wait! LOL I live in florida and it makes me wonder if the corals are wild caught or if they are aquacultured!

Back to the ph. When you read care info on clowns and yellow clown gobies it says ph should be 8.0 to 8.4 I believe. I have never had a reading of past 8. Maybe its from dosing that people get those numbers. I read corals need a higher ph. You dont think I should do anything to up ph? I have read so much conflicting info on it and truthfully dont understand it all. I have read it could be low because i dont have oxygenated enough water. I did just hook u my light today and I also read that could effect ph. Hopefully it will up it some.

I would like to get a new fish. I am also afraid to keep the tank empty beacuse I have read to feed ur tank if you dont have fish, beacuse you could lose the ammonia fighting bacteria. I do have the snails. I am also frankly worried about what they are eating. I keep it really clean. I wonder If I should let the algae stay on the walls at least, but all the youtubes I see of people with 10 gallons no skimmer they aggressively clean the tank. I am almost starting to hope some algae will grow, even though I hate the look of it! Is there a such thing as snail food? When the clown stopped eatting I was putting in a lot of food trying to draw him out but then I got most all of it out right before he died. I should have left it in for the snails and the ammonia to be present to keep the cycle going.

pH is not the problem and alk is a different measurement but they are related. Don't dose any buffers...they only have a temporary effect and dosing that every day would be a terrible idea.

You want the wavemaker on...for both corals and fish. Fish need it for oxygen exchange. They come from the ocean which is chaotic...they won't get blown out of the tank. They are capable of finding a sheltered area to sleep. The wild does not handle them with kid gloves.

If the fish died of disease...you should not add another and let the tank go fallow for at least 8 weeks but longer if you suspect ich.

The LFS can be reputable...it doesn't matter though because the fish come from wholesalers that come from the ocean. It's all similar. It's likely even if they have captive bred in a separate tank...that the employees share nets and so on so all fish are likely exposed to wild parasites.

 

[BeejReef]

sorry about your fish

ph is confusing. there is some correlation between it and alkalinity, but it is not a measure of alkalinity

Chemistry And The Aquarium: The Relationship Between Alkalinity And pH

Randy answers many questions in this complex relationship.

www.advancedaquarist.com

best advise I've gotten is to not worry about your ph. it kind of is what it is... like your body temperature. some people run a little warm, others a little cool. So long as your "normal" is in that 7.7 - 8.3 range, you're good to go. If you test and see yourself outside of that range, it's worth looking into.

 

[Dipan Desai]

I am defiently going to set up a quarantine soon! This was my first fish! Thank God, I guess if it was sick it could kill all my fish, If I had more. That would be to big of a risk to take, especially when I upgrade. I started with a 10 gallon, just to kind of get my feet wet! Or my hands wet! haha. I am going to wait until my future corals get bigger than upgrade to a much bigger tank!

How do I setup a quarantine? Do I have to do water changes and run it the same way as my main tank. I hope not, It expensive enough to change water weekly in a ten gallon. I have no skimmer so I do weekly changes. Could I set up quarantine with a frag tank? Probably not incase I have to medicate. I thought about starting a frag tank in the future. I also thought about setting up quarantine in my garage, but it gets really humid and no airflow and we live in Florida so maybe not a good idea. Just dont want to have a plain ole quarantine tank around that is plain...You know what I mean? Maybe I could set it up in the corner of a guest room. Kind of out of sight. Not like I get many guests anyway! LOL

What do you mean about getting a fish that is already established? Like from a friend or something? I know my lfs had this batch for a while. I saw them when my tank was cycling. Funny though the one I got was in a tank by himself, she said she moves them around though. It was a baby, about 1 in and maybe a half or quarter. I saw that batch there for about a month. There were only 2 left in separate tanks. I should have taken the one that wasnt alone but I saw some scuffling going on and saw it go after a bigger gladiator! She also had medication in the water. It was yellow and I asked and she says she always puts that in the bag to help fight disease or something. It started with a f. Cant remember the name of the medicine.The fact that my snails are doing well makes me question the health of the fish! Are snails hardier than clownfish? I have nassarius and astrea

Here is a link to a video on setting up a QT
Not sure where you are located but look in the selling live stock forum here. Or find a local reefing club. Someone may be breaking down their tank and selling fish they have had for some time. The only downside is you have to be patient to find fish you really want.

 

[nano reef]

The snails are almost indestructible. Don’t worry about them at all. They will be fine. No need to feed them. They will find food.

your pH is also fine, we don’t advise chasing numbers in the hobby. It does more harm than good. Stability is key.

I’d do a 20% water change and start over.

you also mentioned putting lots of food in, this could have contributed to an ammonia spike. Even with testing, sometimes a spike can occur due to bacteria being slow to consume it. By the time you test it may be gone. Typically fish won’t eat well for the first couple days in a new tank. Also, if scared of the person approaching the tank, they may not eat well. There’s a lot of possibilities for everything.

finally, yes 95% of the fish you buy are wild caught. I’ve only ever seen tank raised oscellaris clowns. I’ve heard there are tank raised yellow tangs also. Otherwise most came from the ocean. The best fish are net caught. The other methods lead to high mortality in the long term.

Still baffled as to what happened. Especially since she had that batch for over a month and I had it for a week. There was very little food in the tank as that fish ate viciously and right from the start. It was only in the bottom of tank for a day, the day before fish died and that is when I was trying to draw him out. Then he died and I got it out with a turkey baster. I ended up getting a pair. Like I said I couldnt find anything wrong and I was fishless over a week I think, THe two I have are doing great. I was going to get the clown goby but it was from a different place and i called and could not believe it when he said the fish jumped out overnight!

 

[Gareth elliott]

Clownfish in us are notorious for having parasites and hiding that fact because they have such a thick mucous coat. For fish that die i like to preform a small incision to show the gills then take a sample and look under a scope.
Take another swab of the scales and look at that.
Can help id if the issue was fish specific or could effect any current or

Most false and true percs are captive bred on the market in the US. Some skunk clowns etc will still be wild caught but this is one group of fish that its usually cheaper to buy from a breeder than buy from the ocean.

 

[nano reef]

pH is not the problem and alk is a different measurement but they are related. Don't dose any buffers...they only have a temporary effect and dosing that every day would be a terrible idea.

You want the wavemaker on...for both corals and fish. Fish need it for oxygen exchange. They come from the ocean which is chaotic...they won't get blown out of the tank. They are capable of finding a sheltered area to sleep. The wild does not handle them with kid gloves.

If the fish died of disease...you should not add another and let the tank go fallow for at least 8 weeks but longer if you suspect ich.

The LFS can be reputable...it doesn't matter though because the fish come from wholesalers that come from the ocean. It's all similar. It's likely even if they have captive bred in a separate tank...that the employees share nets and so on so all fish are likely exposed to wild parasites.

What do you mean go fallow? Did you mean fowler? I had no corals? Just snails. I did get a pair of clownfish on sat. I had the snails I didnt want to die as well and also worried about nothing but them in it. Like what would they eat? I had got the food out after the fish died because I was worried about the amonia. These snails dont seem to go after any food.

The first day the one clown didnt eat much, now they are both eatting well. Seem to be doing awesome but then again my first one did for a week. No one said I shouldnt put any other in so I went ahead. If something happens to these I wont but I dont know what to do after that.. Someone said keep fingers crossed these days when buying fish. I hope I just got unlucky somehow. I did do a drip acclimation this time as well.

I am still getting mostly 7.9 ph and 8 ph as well. I didnt change my filter because my hubby threw the box away and it had a part in it I need! I might be getting a 15 gallon aio that is used, mainly to have a protein skimmer. I am also looking at a lower GPH powerhead on amazon I see some inexpensive ones that are powerheads and not wavemakers and less gallons per hour until my fish get bigger. Plus I can use it for water changes and all. I have been reading about powerheads tonight and something about it pulling up food into the water column and the filter sucking it out (not to mention aerating water) i wish I had bought and adjustable wavemaker. Its a koralia nano though. I did read there are lot of reason for a powerhead as well and mine is a wavemaker. I think I might have called it a powerhead though. I kind of got those confused until the reading I am doing tonight. I thought they were both the same and just another term for it.

sorry about your fish

ph is confusing. there is some correlation between it and alkalinity, but it is not a measure of alkalinity

Chemistry And The Aquarium: The Relationship Between Alkalinity And pH

Randy answers many questions in this complex relationship.

www.advancedaquarist.com

best advise I've gotten is to not worry about your ph. it kind of is what it is... like your body temperature. some people run a little warm, others a little cool. So long as your "normal" is in that 7.7 - 8.3 range, you're good to go. If you test and see yourself outside of that range, it's worth looking into.

Thanks so much and I will read that. I am getting 7.9 and 8.0 and havnt hooked up wavemaker yet or filter since my hubby threw box away with a part in it! Of course he dienies it...lol. I think i am just going to order a cheap lil powerhead for now that has less gph then my wave maker. I do have a lil food on bottom since I got these two new fish. I am going to get it out with my turkey baster tomorrow. Think I may get a hermit crab also to get any uneaten food or the powerhead might move it to the water column to get up by the filter??

 

[nano reef]

is alkalinity carbonate hardness or kh? I think I read that and I do have the test kit for that.

So far I havt tested anything with my reef kit since I dont have corals yet (use SW kit a lot) I did just read tonight that detritus is basically left over fish food and waste...hahaha. I Learn something new every single day about this hobby! My god, so much to learn! I thought it was a type of algae or something and I have no algae! I did read today that phosphates can rise with food on bottom. I left it there a few days to hopefully feed snails, since tank has been bare for a while. That was a no go though! I seriously dont know how they are alive!

I did get 2 clowns on saturday and they are doing fine so far! One of them wasnt eating as well as the other at first so thats when I left the food. I havt had a rise in ammonia at all! I am going to remove tomorrow as well and either getting a hermit crab to get any detritus in the future or adding an inexpensive powerhead for now to help raise food into the water column and also provide aeration. Probably just get both. My wave maker seems way to strong for a 10 gallon and tiny fish! Not to mention I can use it for other things like draining into my sink and not have to get out bucket and syphon, during water changes I will upgrade soon and put the wavemaker to use!

Didnt get my yellow clown goby because believe it or not it jumped out of the tank the night b4 at the LFS! This was at another store than my usual, she keeps hers covered.

I want to thank everyone for all your help and definitely enjoying my fish as a pair, they are so cute and keeping my fingers crossed and praying but so far so good, very active and feeding well!

 

[nano reef]

Here is a link to a video on setting up a QT
Not sure where you are located but look in the selling live stock forum here. Or find a local reefing club. Someone may be breaking down their tank and selling fish they have had for some time. The only downside is you have to be patient to find fish you really want.

Thanks for the heads up!