Clown goby sunken stomach

[Red2143]

I've had a clown goby for a week and it doesn't eat. I tried frozen mysis, cyclops, live brine shrimp, crushed pellets, broadcasted and target fed with pipette. Food just bounces off the fish

It's stomach is sunken now but still swimming and perching. What else can I do?

 

[vetteguy53081]

I've had a clown goby for a week and it doesn't eat. I tried frozen mysis, cyclops, live brine shrimp, crushed pellets, broadcasted and target fed with pipette. Food just bounces off the fish

It's stomach is sunken now but still swimming and perching. What else can I do?

These can be problem fish, in the fact that they eat or they dont and when they get thin, rarely recover. These fish are prone ich and internal issues such as liver and edema not to say this fish is a candidate. Try live foods such as brine shrtimp or blackworms as you have offered foods it typically eats
Is fish breathing normal or labored?

 

[Red2143]

These can be problem fish, in the fact that they eat or they dont and when they get thin, rarely recover. These fish are prone ich and internal issues such as liver and edema not to say this fish is a candidate. Try live foods such as brine shrtimp or blackworms as you have offered foods it typically eats
Is fish breathing normal or labored?

Breathing is fine and it swims around no problem. Just doesn't eat and seems to be getting thiner by the day

 

[vetteguy53081]

Breathing is fine and it swims around no problem. Just doesn't eat and seems to be getting thiner by the day

With edema, the fish has a hard time maintaining its bodily fluids with the current tank water related to kidney or liver failure or fluid in the abdomen.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

I've had a clown goby for a week and it doesn't eat. I tried frozen mysis, cyclops, live brine shrimp, crushed pellets, broadcasted and target fed with pipette. Food just bounces off the fish

It's stomach is sunken now but still swimming and perching. What else can I do?

Have you tried live baby brine shrimp, or just adult brine?

This species can be an issue, even given how common they are in the pet trade. Here is the scenario - they are very low cost fish. The divers that catch them earn maybe 3 cents per fish. This species is "cryptic" it hides in the branches of coral. There is no way that a diver could catch these in a net at 3 cents each and make any sort of a living. So - the exporters give the divers cyanide that is then mixed in water and sprayed into the coral, driving all the gobies out to be caught. Trouble is, the cyanide creates fatal damage in a good portion of the fish (40 to 60%). Those fish get sold, but they don't eat and then die. It is illegal, but has been going on since the 1960's.

Seeing the fish eat before you buy them, or buying pre quarantined fish is one way around that issue. Another is to buy tank raised fish (but this species isn't being bred that way).

Jay

 

[Red2143]

Those fish get sold, but they don't eat and then die

How long does that usually take? Lfs had the fish for a week plus my tank for a week.

Have you tried live baby brine shrimp, or just adult brine?

Good question. It was just a cup filled from lfs so may be adults

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

How long does that usually take? Lfs had the fish for a week plus my tank for a week.

Good question. It was just a cup filled from lfs so may be adults

Mortality from cyanide peaks at about 2 weeks after importation and after about 4 to 6 weeks, it subsides. People blame cyanide collecting on fish that they've had for months or years, but that isn't the case.

Jay

 

[Weeb]

Mortality from cyanide peaks at about 2 weeks after importation and after about 4 to 6 weeks, it subsides. People blame cyanide collecting on fish that they've had for months or years, but that isn't the case.

Jay

'Another point' where we disagree. An unpublished study with Dr. Noga shows internal damage to liver from cyanide poisoning months after exposure.

This kind of marine fish is best purchased pre-quarantined and eating. Other live foods I've listed in the Fish Health Through Proper Nutrition post.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

'Another point' where we disagree. An unpublished study with Dr. Noga shows internal damage to liver from cyanide poisoning months after exposure.

This kind of marine fish is best purchased pre-quarantined and eating. Other live foods I've listed in the Fish Health Through Proper Nutrition post.

Dr. Noga does not have access to large quantities of marine fish to study and follow over time, and I have. There simply is no "latent mortality". This isn't a point to disagree upon, you just need to understand the topic:

From my book:

Cyanide collection
The collection of marine aquarium fishes with sodium cyanide has been well documented and is the primary cause of death for freshly collected marine fish from certain regions. Exporters handling these fish tend to either categorically deny that this practice takes place or just sidestep the issue and say that it doesn’t really harm the fish.
In one unpublished 1983 study, 61% of a group of suspected cyanide-collected fish died within 30 days of their importation. None of the control fish housed in same the aquarium system died, and only 9.1% of the fish originating from more sustainable areas, including Hawaii and Sri Lanka, died during the same time. The sample size was 448 fish, so it was large enough to reveal a general trend.
A similar test undertaken in 2006 showed that 55% of a group of Philippine and Indonesian fish died within 30 days of importation versus 3.1% of the control fish housed in the same system. In a third study, which followed a group of marine fish for 40 days after their arrival, 55.9% of the fish from suspect cyanide collection areas died while only 6.2% of the fish acquired from more sustainable regions and quarantined in the same system (at the same time) died.
There are currently movements afoot that are helping to limit cyanide collection in the Philippines, but the problem seems to continue mostly unabated in Indonesia. There are rumors that cyanide collection is increasing in Vietnam, the Red Sea and the Cook Islands. It is not unknown for dealers to “re-label” their fish as having originated from an area that does not use cyanide. This can happen at any stage of the supply chain, so even your dealer may have been misled.

Related articles I've published:

Aquarium Fish: Mortality Rates of Fishes in Captivity

Certainly, invertebrates experience mortality in captivity, but less is known about their natural longevity.

reefs.com

Sustainability in the Aquarium Trade, Longevity and Animal Costs

This article is a bit of a mashup – combining portions of a previous public aquarium article on animal sustainability, with some longevity data and fish pricing through the supply chain.

www.reef2reef.com

Jay

 

[Weeb]

Dr. Noga does not have access to large quantities of marine fish to study and follow over time, and I have. There simply is no "latent mortality". This isn't a point to disagree upon, you just need to understand the topic:

From my book:

Cyanide collection
The collection of marine aquarium fishes with sodium cyanide has been well documented and is the primary cause of death for freshly collected marine fish from certain regions. Exporters handling these fish tend to either categorically deny that this practice takes place or just sidestep the issue and say that it doesn’t really harm the fish.
In one unpublished 1983 study, 61% of a group of suspected cyanide-collected fish died within 30 days of their importation. None of the control fish housed in same the aquarium system died, and only 9.1% of the fish originating from more sustainable areas, including Hawaii and Sri Lanka, died during the same time. The sample size was 448 fish, so it was large enough to reveal a general trend.
A similar test undertaken in 2006 showed that 55% of a group of Philippine and Indonesian fish died within 30 days of importation versus 3.1% of the control fish housed in the same system. In a third study, which followed a group of marine fish for 40 days after their arrival, 55.9% of the fish from suspect cyanide collection areas died while only 6.2% of the fish acquired from more sustainable regions and quarantined in the same system (at the same time) died.
There are currently movements afoot that are helping to limit cyanide collection in the Philippines, but the problem seems to continue mostly unabated in Indonesia. There are rumors that cyanide collection is increasing in Vietnam, the Red Sea and the Cook Islands. It is not unknown for dealers to “re-label” their fish as having originated from an area that does not use cyanide. This can happen at any stage of the supply chain, so even your dealer may have been misled.

Related articles I've published:

Aquarium Fish: Mortality Rates of Fishes in Captivity

Certainly, invertebrates experience mortality in captivity, but less is known about their natural longevity.

reefs.com

Sustainability in the Aquarium Trade, Longevity and Animal Costs

This article is a bit of a mashup – combining portions of a previous public aquarium article on animal sustainability, with some longevity data and fish pricing through the supply chain.

www.reef2reef.com

Jay

Did you intentionally add words to my post or, just not reading it? I made no claim to mortality.

Referencing the book you wrote isn't "proof."

 

[dansyr]

Seconding fresh-hatched brine shrimp. Just added a green clown goby a couple days ago, same behavior as yours - skinny but not emaciated-skinny and still active, but didn't take to frozen, so I broke down and hatched some baby brine shrimp.

Just after moonlights came on (1.5 hrs after dark in my tank) I pipetted and he took to it. Currently trying to wean him off it but he's giving a good hunting response to them still, and spits out all frozen food / pellets / flakes. Now he hunts them all day long going by his perch. If yours is active and alert, maybe this will work?

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Did you intentionally add words to my post or, just not reading it? I made no claim to mortality.

Referencing the book you wrote isn't "proof."

Sigh - what was your claim then? Some vague comment attributed to Noga about long term liver damage, but that DOESN’T cause death?

Ed does write about cyanide causing delayed mortality syndrome, with a time horizon of up to three weeks, right inside the time frame I mentioned.

I’ve worked on fish mortality rates for my entire professional life. My information is based on that work. I shared it with you to help bring you up to speed on the topic.

Jay

 

[Weeb]

How long does that usually take? Lfs had the fish for a week plus my tank for a week.

Good question. It was just a cup filled from lfs so may be adults

I hope your fish comes around. Keep us informed.

Besides newly hatched brine shrimp you may try decapsulated brine shrimp eggs. As the name implies, these eggs have had their shell removed. They don't/won't hatch. Available from a few LFS and online.

If the fish begins to eat, I've had success with getting these fish to eat a relatively new product -- Mini-Mysis. Frozen and from only one manufacturer.

 

[Weeb]

Sigh - what was your claim then? Some vague comment attributed to Noga about long term liver damage, but that DOESN’T cause death?

Ed does write about cyanide causing delayed mortality syndrome, with a time horizon of up to three weeks, right inside the time frame I mentioned.

I’ve worked on fish mortality rates for my entire professional life. My information is based on that work. I shared it with you to help bring you up to speed on the topic.

Jay

Re-read Sick Clown Fish thread. https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/sick-clown-fish.955257

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Re-read Sick Clown Fish thread. https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/sick-clown-fish.955257

I recall that thread - and you were incorrect with that information also. Cyanide had nothing to do with the problem that fish had, it was almost assuredly an acid fast bacteria, most likely one of the Mycobacteria, perhaps Nocardia.

Look, I am apparently not able to change your mind on this topic, and you may not like to be corrected, but I have a duty to other members on R2R, when incorrect information is posted on one of the threads I am working on, I will correct it.

Jay