Clownfish contracted velvet

[Salty87]

Looking like brook yes and treatment will be in a quarantine setting using a formalin based medication such as quick cure or if not available ruby rally pro will also work but take longer
You can give fish a 5 minute freshwater dip the same temperature as display tank to offer temporary relief but ultimately treatment is needed

Thank you... And sorry again for thinking it was velvet.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

@Jay Hemdal @vetteguy53081 pls refer to the attached pics. I now feel it is early Brook I'm dealing with and not velvet. Any further input is appreciated.

Pictures can only go so far in fish disease diagnosis. The dorsal lesions seems to be Lymphocystis, a self limiting viral disease so you don’t need to worry about that. I can’t see evidence of ich, velvet or Brook. The discolored area on the white head stripe is something I see on sick clownfish here, but I’ve never had one in hand so I do not know what causes that. It is some lesion under the skin that really only shows well on light colored skin.
Jay

 

[Salty87]

Pictures can only go so far in fish disease diagnosis. The dorsal lesions seems to be Lymphocystis, a self limiting viral disease so you don’t need to worry about that. I can’t see evidence of ich, velvet or Brook. The discolored area on the white head stripe is something I see on sick clownfish here, but I’ve never had one in hand so I do not know what causes that. It is some lesion under the skin that really only shows well on light colored skin.
Jay

I agree on the pictures being a limiting factor. Could not capture the velvety dusting around the face unless it was under display lighting and angle.

The discoloration area on the white head stripe was also on the second stripe. And resolved the last time the fish were introduced back into the Dt so not very worried about it. Can metronidazole be a safer (for me) alternative to formalin?

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

I agree on the pictures being a limiting factor. Could not capture the velvety dusting around the face unless it was under display lighting and angle.

The discoloration area on the white head stripe was also on the second stripe. And resolved the last time the fish were introduced back into the Dt so not very worried about it. Can metronidazole be a safer (for me) alternative to formalin?

Metronidazole is just not very effective at controlling protozoans in water.
Backing up on this - are you seeing rapid breathing? If not it isn’t velvet…..
Jay

 

[Salty87]

Metronidazole is just not very effective at controlling protozoans in water.
Backing up on this - are you seeing rapid breathing? If not it isn’t velvet…..
Jay

I did see a bit of rapid breathing and increased twitching on the worse of the infected clowns while in the display. Now that I ve put them through one peroxide dip and a couple tank transfers, they are both breathing normally although occasional flashing still occurs.

The reason I asked about metro or any other alternative to formalin is, as a physician I am well aware of its carcinogenic property and exposing myself or my family to it for extended periods other than a short bath (outside) is just not feasible. I can at the most do a formalin and methylene blue dip (safety stop) for 45 Mins outside or revert back to chloroquine if that will work. Also formalin is hard to acquire with a lot of red tape involved.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

I did see a bit of rapid breathing and increased twitching on the worse of the infected clowns while in the display. Now that I ve put them through one peroxide dip and a couple tank transfers, they are both breathing normally although occasional flashing still occurs.

The reason I asked about metro or any other alternative to formalin is, as a physician I am well aware of its carcinogenic property and exposing myself or my family to it for extended periods other than a short bath (outside) is just not feasible. I can at the most do a formalin and methylene blue dip (safety stop) for 45 Mins outside or revert back to chloroquine if that will work. Also formalin is hard to acquire with a lot of red tape involved.

Yes, formalin is a huge issue. Many medications have changed their formulations to remove it to meet US and EU mandates.
Metro works well for internal protozoans dosed at 5000 ppm in food. Chloroquine is a better drug to use as a bath.
I rely on coppersafe for ich and velvet. Concurrent diseases are also possible; perhaps the fish had velvet and that was resolved but they still have flukes? That would line up with the breathing improving, but the fish still flashing.
Jay

 

[Salty87]

Yes, formalin is a huge issue. Many medications have changed their formulations to remove it to meet US and EU mandates.
Metro works well for internal protozoans dosed at 5000 ppm in food. Chloroquine is a better drug to use as a bath.
I rely on coppersafe for ich and velvet. Concurrent diseases are also possible; perhaps the fish had velvet and that was resolved but they still have flukes? That would line up with the breathing improving, but the fish still flashing.
Jay

Ok. I did go through 3 cycles of general cure for flukes, which was my primary suspicion. So best course of action would be to complete the current course of ttm and peroxide with a safety stop bath and observe. And if symptoms reccur, go through another round of chloroquine and general cure? These poor things have seen more medication than me by this point... I can source praziquantel in powder form if general cure isn't sufficient in your opinion. Just not any of the name brands available in the US.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Ok. I did go through 3 cycles of general cure for flukes, which was my primary suspicion. So best course of action would be to complete the current course of ttm and peroxide with a safety stop bath and observe. And if symptoms reccur, go through another round of chloroquine and general cure? These poor things have seen more medication than me by this point... I can source praziquantel in powder form if general cure isn't sufficient in your opinion. Just not any of the name brands available in the US.

From what I can tell General Cure is fine for flukes. I tried to back calculate the dose and it seemed to work out. You want 2 to 3 ppm praziquantel. In this case GC also has metro in it, but I’m not counting on that really. Many people use Prazipro now because it can be dosed in a reef tank.
I’m not sure what to tell you here. TTM works for some diseases, but it is mostly for ich.
Jay

 

[Salty87]

From what I can tell General Cure is fine for flukes. I tried to back calculate the dose and it seemed to work out. You want 2 to 3 ppm praziquantel. In this case GC also has metro in it, but I’m not counting on that really. Many people use Prazipro now because it can be dosed in a reef tank.
I’m not sure what to tell you here. TTM works for some diseases, but it is mostly for ich.
Jay

Oh I realise ttm may not work here, but since I'm already underway and my Dt needs to be fallow, I guess I have all the time to ease in and out of treatment options, now that the clowns seem symptomatically better than before. One last thing that I could pick your brain if I may? What's is the formula to achieve 2-3ppm of praziquantel esp in ltrs? And what would the treatment regimen look like? 7-8 days apart as in general cure? Does it biodegrade like chloroquine?

Thank you so much for putting up with all my constant questions and patiently answering. I truly appreciate your efforts and @vetteguy53081

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Oh I realise ttm may not work here, but since I'm already underway and my Dt needs to be fallow, I guess I have all the time to ease in and out of treatment options, now that the clowns seem symptomatically better than before. One last thing that I could pick your brain if I may? What's is the formula to achieve 2-3ppm of praziquantel esp in ltrs? And what would the treatment regimen look like? 7-8 days apart as in general cure? Does it biodegrade like chloroquine?

Thank you so much for putting up with all my constant questions and patiently answering. I truly appreciate your efforts and @vetteguy53081

Yes, prazi was found to degrade by heterotrophic bacteria, subsequent doses get decomposed faster and faster.
I prefer a redose schedule of 8 to 9 days to try and catch flukes hatching out and killing them before they have time to lay eggs themselves.
I work mostly in gallons. The formula for that is ppm * gallons / 266 = grams of medication. For metric it is easier ppm = mg/l For a 200 liter tank to dose at 2 ppm you would just add 400 mg of drug.
Jay

Jay

 

[Janet Belanger]

For what its worth, my male and female both get dusty mouth area from cleaning rock to prepare for eggs. Not suggesting that's whats going on but it can be just skin damage from rubbing or hosting something. Just another point of reference when observing.

The flashing is absolutely not normal behavior. Hopefully you get it figured out.

I agree the fin issue looks like lymphocystis which clears on its own in my experience.

 

[Salty87]

For what its worth, my male and female both get dusty mouth area from cleaning rock to prepare for eggs. Not suggesting that's whats going on but it can be just skin damage from rubbing or hosting something. Just another point of reference when observing.

The flashing is absolutely not normal behavior. Hopefully you get it figured out.

I agree the fin issue looks like lymphocystis which clears on its own in my experience.

That is some interesting observations. The two clowns were not hosting anything at the time. What got me concerned about the dusty appearance on the face was the flashing and the listless behavior. It was as if the fish was very very uncomfortable and trying to shake of something on its body.

Well the good news is, they both came through. Ttm with peroxide actually did help but one of the clowns got a bad bacterial infection from the small qt having an ammonia spike, suspected burned gills and swollen lips and head region. A round of cipro treated that like a charm and that clown is back to almost perfect health save for the Kardashian lips that are subsiding. Also once they both were in stable health I did a safety stop dip (contains formalin) just to be extra safe. Now the new couple have decided that a goniopora is their future living quarters.