Clownfish infection/disease

gbru316 · Aug 22, 2022

Jay Hemdal said:
Tough to say - I usually give antibiotics 5 to 7 days to at least stop the progression of the infection. Since it isn't showing any secondary symptoms (not eating, etc.) I wouldn't euthanize it.

Is the respiration rate still at 160 though? That seemed high, and would count as a secondary symptom IMO.

It's tough to see - is there a margin around the lesion? If so, the bacteria may have been halted, but it will take time for the tissue to regrow, and there may well always be a scar there.

Jay

I'll have to study it a bit closer tonight to see if a margin has formed.

Respiration is higher today, maybe 200ish?

No ammonia present (alert badge), HOB power filter and airpump w/airline for aeration.

Jay Hemdal · Aug 22, 2022

gbru316 said:
I'll have to study it a bit closer tonight to see if a margin has formed.

Respiration is higher today, maybe 200ish?

No ammonia present (alert badge), HOB power filter and airpump w/airline for aeration.

Ugh, 200 bpm is too high. Since you are running an air pump, and the ammonia is low, that pretty much leaves gill disease as the culprit. Trouble is, there are three causes: protozoans, flukes and bacteria and each one needs a different treatment. You've been dosing with antibiotics, but I really can't tell you what to try next. I typically find that in cases where we end up throwing every medication at a fish due to an undiagnosed acute problem, we end up losing the fish....

At this point, have you considered to see if a 5 minute FW dip might offer some relief?

Jay

gbru316 · Aug 22, 2022

Jay Hemdal said:
Ugh, 200 bpm is too high. Since you are running an air pump, and the ammonia is low, that pretty much leaves gill disease as the culprit. Trouble is, there are three causes: protozoans, flukes and bacteria and each one needs a different treatment. You've been dosing with antibiotics, but I really can't tell you what to try next. I typically find that in cases where we end up throwing every medication at a fish due to an undiagnosed acute problem, we end up losing the fish....

At this point, have you considered to see if a 5 minute FW dip might offer some relief?

Jay

I didn't have an airstone on the pump prior -- and the area is usually dark. I threw an airstone on and have left the lights on, I'm going to do a respiration count later this evening. Maybe the airline tubing alone wasn't sufficient, or maybe the sudden change from dark to light startles it and temporarily increases respiration? Just spit-balling here before trying anything drastic.

If it is an undiagnosed gill issue leading to secondary infection, it would make sense because I've lost fish from this store before and rapid breathing usually precedes death, but it's been accompanied with lethargy and no food intake. This clown seems to be a survivor. I've tried FW dipping those other fish to no avail. Though, that's been a last ditch effort kind of thing and I wouldn't be surprised if the fish were already too far gone at that point.

I've got prazi and copper available.

Assuming respiration is still high -- Clear out the tank overnight via carbon, FW dip, and .... round of prazi? copper?

gbru316 · Aug 22, 2022

Edges look like they’re healing, so that’s good.

but after a 5 min freshwater dip this evening, respiration rate hasn’t changed. No observable flukes or parasites of any sort in the dip water. Though there was a bit of skin clumped with some other stuff -- my gut says it's unrelated but I'm not the expert here. Whatever it is, it's not a parasite or anything "live" but posting in the hopes it offers a clue. Image taken at 40x.

I can’t tell how deep the hole is , other than the super scientific descriptor of “fairly” — is it possible that the hole has reduced water flow over the gills to the point where respiration is increased as a result?

Jay Hemdal · Aug 22, 2022

gbru316 said:
I didn't have an airstone on the pump prior -- and the area is usually dark. I threw an airstone on and have left the lights on, I'm going to do a respiration count later this evening. Maybe the airline tubing alone wasn't sufficient, or maybe the sudden change from dark to light startles it and temporarily increases respiration? Just spit-balling here before trying anything drastic.

If it is an undiagnosed gill issue leading to secondary infection, it would make sense because I've lost fish from this store before and rapid breathing usually precedes death, but it's been accompanied with lethargy and no food intake. This clown seems to be a survivor. I've tried FW dipping those other fish to no avail. Though, that's been a last ditch effort kind of thing and I wouldn't be surprised if the fish were already too far gone at that point.

I've got prazi and copper available.

Assuming respiration is still high -- Clear out the tank overnight via carbon, FW dip, and .... round of prazi? copper?

Just a guess, but I would give it a FW dip first to knock any flukes back and then treat with copper for protozoans. Then, treat with a round of prazi later on.
Jay

gbru316 · Aug 22, 2022

Jay Hemdal said:
Just a guess, but I would give it a FW dip first to knock any flukes back and then treat with copper for protozoans. Then, treat with a round of prazi later on.
Jay

Starting copper tomorrow.

as always, thanks!

(could've purchased 3 new clowns for the price this one is costing me..... smh

. Good learning experience though.)

gbru316 · Aug 25, 2022

@Jay Hemdal, would you recommend doing a full 30 day copper treatment? Or is there some point where, if the fast respiration doesn't improve, it might make more sense to end the copper and start prazi instead?

Sharkbait19 · Aug 25, 2022

Generally the diseases killed by copper are the more fast acting ones, so it’s safest to knock them out first.

Jay Hemdal · Aug 25, 2022

gbru316 said:
@Jay Hemdal, would you recommend doing a full 30 day copper treatment? Or is there some point where, if the fast respiration doesn't improve, it might make more sense to end the copper and start prazi instead?

If you are using copper power or copper safe, you can do that for a few days to a week and then do a prazipro treatment while the fish are in the copper. I normally don't do this, but a number of people do with no real issues.

Jay

gbru316 · Sep 21, 2022

Finished the antibiotics and copper, started prazi 3 days ago.

lesion seems to have stopped growing in size and is healing around the edges. Fast respiration remains.

should I return to display after finishing the prazi treatment?

Jay Hemdal · Sep 21, 2022

Sorry, I don't know the continued cause of the rapid breathing (the tank has good aeration and isn't too warm?). Since the cause is unknown, I would NOT move the fish in with other fish for fear of whatever it is spreading.

Jay

gbru316 · Sep 21, 2022

Jay Hemdal said:
Sorry, I don't know the continued cause of the rapid breathing (the tank has good aeration and isn't too warm?). Since the cause is unknown, I would NOT move the fish in with other fish for fear of whatever it is spreading.

Jay

well crap.

tank is upper 70’s, has airstone and HOB filter for aeration.

Do you think the “hole” is close enough to the gills to allow some water to bypass them, resulting in decreased respiration efficiency?

Jay Hemdal · Sep 22, 2022

gbru316 said:
well crap.

tank is upper 70’s, has airstone and HOB filter for aeration.

Do you think the “hole” is close enough to the gills to allow some water to bypass them, resulting in decreased respiration efficiency?

That can happen, but the hole would need to go all the way through the gill plate, and it doesn't look like it is..

Jay