Clownfish loosing color and laying on it's side

[JAC-]

Greetings,

I've been doing freshwater tanks for decades and i've started my first reef tank.
It was off to a great start until I added two young clownfish. One is very healthy and happy looking, as was the other untill...

The other is now loosing color on the first white stripe and near it and acting lethargic. It is often laying on it's side and often opening its mouth. I assume the last is it breathing rapidly.

Both clownfish have been swimming together and showing no signs of aggression so I do not suspect the other injured it. I added both at the same time about two weeks ago. He has never stopped eating, but swims oddly when he does swim. For about a day he constantly kept the pectoral fin on the side that was loosing color forward.

As soon as I noticed the problem I set up a quarantine tank and added paraguard as I assumed the problem must be bacterial.

This post is feeling long, so I will reply with tank info and water parameters.

Thanks

 

[JAC-]

The tank is a 40 gallon all in one aquatop.
It's been up for 52 days and has a few corals, a yellow watchman goby, had two clownfish, 1 pistol shrimp, 1 fire shrimp, hermit crabs, astrea snails, nassarius snails, and cerith snails.

I've been feeding mostly SA dry hatchery diet pellets, and occasionally mysis shrimp and brine shrimp.

Ph 8.2
Ammonia 0
No2 0
No3 10ppm
PO3/4 .1ppm
Kh 11.5
Magnesium 1360
Calcium 420
Salinity 1.025
Temp 78 f

All help highly appreciated.

 

[MetaKnight101]

How's your other fish; do they experience the same symptoms? We can definitely rule out water chemistry since your inverts are alive. If it were parasites then all of your fish need to be treated in the tank and the tank would be needed to be left fishless for 76 days for the parasites to starve. However, you said it was one clownfish so there seems to be no parasite since it would all your fish by now and it would be quite noticeable. I experienced color loss in a clownfish it doesn't always mean that they're sick but it could mean poor diet or they just change colors as they grow up.
A video would greatly help to see its behavior. It is quite possible the other clown was picking on it at times that you don't see it.

 

[JAC-]

Thanks friend,

The LFS was stumped, and said I probably didn't need to quarantine it, but I wanted to be safe. I've fought my share of battles on the fresh side and everything I hear about saltwater disease seems much faster and more aggressive.

All other fish are fine, including the other clown that was often rubbing on it. I've also seen no real signs of bacteria or parasites. The behavior is the main concern. The colors look better in the pictures for some reason.

I'm unfortunately not very familiar with clownfish so if them rubbing on each other is a sign of aggression than they definitely were.

I'll see if I can get a video, but in the quarantine tank he is mostly sitting on the bottom or laying on his side until I walk up and he swims around looking for food for a bit before returning to his laying down.

Is it just lazy and changing and I'm over reacting?

Should I be using different food besides the SA pellets and occasional frozen?

 

[JAC-]

How's your other fish; do they experience the same symptoms? We can definitely rule out water chemistry since your inverts are alive. If it were parasites then all of your fish need to be treated in the tank and the tank would be needed to be left fishless for 76 days for the parasites to starve. However, you said it was one clownfish so there seems to be no parasite since it would all your fish by now and it would be quite noticeable. I experienced color loss in a clownfish it doesn't always mean that they're sick but it could mean poor diet or they just change colors as they grow up.
A video would greatly help to see its behavior. It is quite possible the other clown was picking on it at times that you don't see it.

Also thanks for the info, the 76 day period was not something I was aware of. I'm adding that to my log and hopefully never going to need to know it.

 

[JAC-]

Video attached. He wasn't wanting to move much this time, but is starting to swim better. I haven't seen him swimming sideways since he was moved into the QT. The low flow may have something to do with that.

I do see that part of his fin is now looking chewed up. I'll try and get a picture of that following.

 

[JAC-]

Few more pictures

 

[Pistondog]

Kh looks a little high, don't know if that bothers clowns.
How is the water oxygenated?
Maybe try an airstone.

 

[JAC-]

Kh looks a little high, don't know if that bothers clowns.
How is the water oxygenated?
Maybe try an airstone.

Thanks for the input,

I don't know if the higher KH is a problem for them either, been having great luck with coral with the KH and the other clown is happy as can be. They both came from the same aqua culture. (if I'm using that term correctly)

The main tank has a power head aiming at the surface and pushing the oxygenated water along the front glass down to the bottom, and lots of flow from another power head.
I would assume it's enough, but I welcome advice on that. I may have too much flow if that's a problem, but in the QT with much less flow the lethargic behavior is still the same. Is too much flow a problem? The one clown seems to be able to maintain just fine.

In the QT I have an air stone and a bit of surface agitation from the filter.

 

[JAC-]

Kh looks a little high, don't know if that bothers clowns.
How is the water oxygenated?
Maybe try an airstone.

I also highly appreciate you following up we me from the other post. People like you really make a difference to newbies.

Thank you very much.

 

[Pistondog]

Thanks for the input,

I don't know if the higher KH is a problem for them either, been having great luck with coral with the KH and the other clown is happy as can be. They both came from the same aqua culture. (if I'm using that term correctly)

The main tank has a power head aiming at the surface and pushing the oxygenated water along the front glass down to the bottom, and lots of flow from another power head.
I would assume it's enough, but I welcome advice on that. I may have too much flow if that's a problem, but in the QT with much less flow the lethargic behavior is still the same. Is too much flow a problem? The one clown seems to be able to maintain just fine.

In the QT I have an air stone and a bit of surface agitation from the filter.

You're welcome.
I've never had a tank without skimmer or airstone or bubbler of some sort, freshwater included.
There was guy who studied this in 2005ish.
Surface agitation < air stone < skimmer for gas exchange

 

[JAC-]

You're welcome.
I've never had a tank without skimmer or airstone or bubbler of some sort, freshwater included.
There was guy who studied this in 2005ish.
Surface agitation < air stone < skimmer for gas exchange

I'll certainly add one. I have a few laying around. Thanks.

 

[MetaKnight101]

Kh looks a little high, don't know if that bothers clowns.
How is the water oxygenated?
Maybe try an airstone.

Alkalinity (kh) doesn't have much if any impact on fish, it's usually for coral

 

[MetaKnight101]

How's your other fish; do they experience the same symptoms? We can definitely rule out water chemistry since your inverts are alive. If it were parasites then all of your fish need to be treated in the tank and the tank would be needed to be left fishless for 76 days for the parasites to starve. However, you said it was one clownfish so there seems to be no parasite since it would all your fish by now and it would be quite noticeable. I experienced color loss in a clownfish it doesn't always mean that they're sick but it could mean poor diet or they just change colors as they grow up.
A video would greatly help to see its behavior. It is quite possible the other clown was picking on it at times that you don't see it.

Apart from the stripe, which could be, as I said earlier, a poor diet or just growing and changing color, he appears to be normal as I don't see any parasite on him. He seems to be hosting the corner of the tank as he doesn't appear to have any bladder issues, either. I would leave him in there for a couple of days to make sure. Now about that rubbing part, that is a normal process of a male clown submitting to the female clown. Basically, they were in the process of pairing up and could potentially become bonded pairs eventually. This makes lean toward that the female clown probably had shown aggression to the male clown (the one in the QT tank) that she's the boss and the male clown submits by doing a"rubbing/shaking/seizureish type movement with the female clown).

 

[JAC-]

Apart from the stripe, which could be, as I said earlier, a poor diet or just growing and changing color, he appears to be normal as I don't see any parasite on him. He seems to be hosting the corner of the tank as he doesn't appear to have any bladder issues, either. I would leave him in there for a couple of days to make sure. Now about that rubbing part, that is a normal process of a male clown submitting to the female clown. Basically, they were in the process of pairing up and could potentially become bonded pairs eventually. This makes lean toward that the female clown probably had shown aggression to the male clown (the one in the QT tank) that she's the boss and the male clown submits by doing a"rubbing/shaking/seizureish type movement with the female clown).

That is very helpful. I'll continue to watch him closely for a few more days and if he continues to improve, I'll accumulate him back to the main tank.

Thank you very much for the help and the knowledge you shared.